FOX News "Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace" - Transcript: Tucson Shooting and the Debt Limit

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BAIER: Joining us now, two new members of the U.S. Senate. Rand Paul, Republican from Kentucky joins us from there. And Democrat Chris Coons comes to us from his home state of Delaware. Senators, welcome to "Fox News Sunday."

SEN. CHRISTOPHER COONS, D-DEL.: Good morning.

SEN. RAND PAUL, R-KY.: Thanks, Bret.

BAIER: Thanks for being with us. I'll ask you the same question I asked Representatives Clyburn and Rodgers to start off here about the tragedy in Arizona. Does the shooting say anything about the political discourse in the U.S.? And does it change anything in Washington? Senator Paul, first to you.

PAUL: Well, I think most importantly in the initial stages here, we need to emphasize the humanity and the tragedy of this whole thing. You know, we're people like anybody else. Representative Giffords has a family and children. I think that's what's most important, that we talk about the tragedy and how awful this is.

Before we take a step beyond that -- once you do take a step beyond that, I looked at some of the writings of this young man. From a medical point of view, there is a lot to suggest paranoid schizophrenia, that this man was a really sick individual. And absolutely we need to condemn the violence. And absolutely we need to have our prayers and our thoughts with those who suffered from this violence.

BAIER: Senator Coons?

COONS: Well, Annie and I have been praying for Gabby and her family, for all the victims of yesterday's attack in Tucson. This kind of senseless violence is never appropriate in our country, least of all when it's directed at somebody like Congresswoman Giffords who is a caring and energetic and engaged and committed public servant, who was working hard to try and improve the lives of her constituents.

We spent much of yesterday afternoon in horror watching as this all unfolded. I do think, as Senator Paul says, that all of us need to be mindful of the fact this was the act of a deranged individual. We need to be more cautious and concerned about our security, but we also need to be re-dedicated to the work of trying to serve our constituents, of remaining active and engaged in the institution of the Congress, and moving ahead to tackle the very real challenges ahead of us.

Since I first met Gabby, roughly a decade ago, she impressed me as someone who was a tireless and dedicated public servant. I hope we will all move forward in a positive way. We'll reduce some of the heated rhetoric of the election campaign and move towards some of the real challenges that lie ahead of us.

BAIER: Senator Coons, do you think this incident will reignite efforts by gun control advocates to push for revision in gun laws?

COONS: I do think we need to responsibly enforce the existing gun laws that place barriers for those who are mentally unstable to gun ownership or gun use. I think, frankly, that we need to move forward toward the biggest challenges in front of us, making sure we get Americans back to work, tackling our deficit and our debt, dealing with the conflict in Afghanistan.

There are big challenges right in front of us, and frankly think that's what Congress needs to be focused on.

BAIER: Senator Paul, Arizona is one of three states where you can carry a concealed weapon without a permit. Alaska and Vermont are the other two. Is that at all in jeopardy, do you think?

PAUL: No, I don't think so. Interestingly, Representative Giffords was a defender of the Second Amendment and is a defender of the Second Amendment. So no, I don't think that plays into this at all. Really, I think they are unrelated.

It's probably about a very sick individual and what should have been done for that person. But the weapons don't kill people. It's the individual that killed these people.

BAIER: This is obviously on the minds of all of the members of Congress. And as we heard, the House is delaying its action on health care. But there are a lot of legislative things to talk about coming up very soon. There has been a lot of talk about the upcoming vote to raise the federal debt ceiling.

As you can see by this chart, Congress has done it many times before. But Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner said Thursday that the country's current debt limit -- you see it here, 14.29 trillion dollars -- could be reached as early as March 31st.

Question to both of you. Do you know specifically what will happen if the debt ceiling is not raised, in specific? Senator Paul first.

PAUL: Well, I can't imagine voting to raise the debt ceiling unless we're going to change our ways in Washington. I am proposing that we link to raising the debt ceiling -- that we link a balanced budget rule, an ironclad rule that they can't evade.

They have shown themselves to be untrustworthy. You're right, they raise it every six months or every year. But then they never change anything. So even if we attach some token spending cuts to it, I don't think that's enough. We have to change the rules and we have to say to Washington balance the budget. You have to do it by law.

And then I'll vote to raise the debt ceiling. But only if we have an ironclad balanced budget rule that we attach to the debt ceiling.

BAIER: But Senator Paul, we heard the administration, Austan Goolsbee, Treasury Secretary Geithner's letter about what potentially could happen to the economy in a default. Do you have any sense of what could happen if this vote fails?

PAUL: Well, it's interesting. The president's advisers are saying this. But in 2006, then Senator Obama voted against raising the debt ceiling and said it would be irresponsible to raise the debt ceiling, that it was a failure of our leadership to control the debt. It's a little disingenuous now to say the sky is falling, you absolutely have to do it.

I think it's an either/or fallacy. They say either you raise it or the sky will fall and the end of the economy will happen. What about an in-between solution? What about we spend what we take in? We bring in 200 billion dollars a month. Couldn't we just spend what we have instead of saying oh, we have to shut down government?

We could still spend 200 billion dollars a month, or over two trillion dollars a year without raising the debt ceiling. They don't tell you there is an alternative.

BAIER: Senator Coons, your response to that?

COONS: Bret, this is a fundamentally different issue of the possibility of shutting down government. Back in '95, the new speaker of the House, Newt Gingrich, and then President Clinton got into a big contest about federal spending and ultimately shut down the government for a brief period of time. While that was disruptive and difficult, it led to a path forward on budget resolution.

Defaulting on the American debt is a fundamentally different thing. And I believe Secretary Geithner. And the letter he sent to all of us as members of Congress was raising the alarm that the potential consequences of a failure to meet America's legal obligations, to fail to raise the debt ceiling in the short-term, has dramatically negative consequences.

We don't want to be counted among the reckless and irresponsible countries that fail to meet their obligations, like Greece or like Spain, and have to be bailed out by other countries around the world.

I agree that we do need to make progress in reducing federal spending and tackling our deficit. But it took a long time to work our way into this problem. And it is going to take some hard and responsible work to get our way out of it.

BAIER: Senator Coons, you said in an interview two months ago, quoting here, "in order for me to be comfortable voting to raise the debt ceiling, I am going to need to see that we're making progress in tackling the deficit and the debt." Senator, are you prepared to block the increase of the debt ceiling if it's not paired with real deficit reductions? Real spending cuts?

COONS: I'm going to be looking for to us begin the path toward spending reduction, to making sure that we're serious about tackling our tax system and beginning tax reform. I frankly have some real concerns about the bipartisan compromise tax package that we ultimately passed at the end of the lame duck session.

But as I listen to advice from economists, folks from the administration, more senior members of the Senate, I was convinced that in this economy, as we're really just beginning a recovery, we needed to extend tax relief and we needed to put together and pass the package that the last Congress did, in which I served.

I do think moving forward, we shouldn't play a political game of chicken with raising the debt ceiling. The consequences are too great. But I am going to be working hard with others in my caucus and across the aisle to begin the process of putting together responsible spending cuts and movement toward reducing America's debt.

BAIER: Senator Paul, this is what Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said this week about the Tea Party: quote, "the Tea Party was born because of the economy. The economy is probably the worst it's ever been except for maybe the Great Depression. The Tea Party will disappear as soon as the economy gets better, and the economy is getting better all the time."

BAIER: Your reaction to that?

PAUL: Well, as someone who came from the Tea Party, I can tell you that the Tea Party is a staying force. It's a force that is critical of both Republicans and Democrats, and wants them to do something about the deficit.

You know, they say they're worried about what will happen if we don't raise the debt ceiling. We're worried about a $14 trillion deficit. And we're worried that it's unsustainable and threatens the foundation of our economy.

And I don't think it's going to be tinkering at the edges here. We have to have fundamental reform of the way the budget goes forward. We have to force Washington to balance the budget, and we do need to link it to the debt ceiling because, strategically, it will allow us to get reforms that we need, because I think the votes will be there to raise the debt ceiling. But let's make sure that if they raise the debt ceiling, they fix some of the budgetary problems we have.

BAIER: Senator Coons, last question for you. You were very critical of Wall Street's business practices in your campaign. You called Wall Street banks "reckless," saying Wall Street greed damaged American families.

In light of all that, what do you make of President Obama's choice of Bill Daley, a JPMorgan Chase executive, as his new chief of staff, and Gene Sperling, a Goldman Sachs consultant, as his chief economic adviser?

COONS: Well, as I have gone up and down the state of Delaware as a senator, I've had the opportunity to meet with business leaders, with those who own and run small businesses, with large business leaders, with folks who are in the farming community, with seniors and veterans, and I hear same concern over and over. They want us to focus in Congress on getting the economy back to work, on creating high-wage jobs.

And if the administration is making a change in leadership that brings in to leadership folks with more experience in the private sector, who have got more ability to work across the aisle, that's a choice the president is making. I do think --

BAIER: Sir, despite the fact that you talked about --

(CROSSTALK)

COONS: -- it's important for us to have a more constructive and positive relationship with the private sector.

BAIER: Yes. Despite the things you said in the campaign about those banks, perhaps, that those gentlemen worked for, you think they're going to be an --

COONS: Well, Bret, let's be clear. I wasn't saying in the campaign that bankers are bad people. I'm just saying that there was reckless and irresponsible behavior.

Part of that was because of a lack of appropriate oversight and regulation. Part of it was because we pulled out some of the critical circuit breakers that were put in place after the depression. It was a bipartisan effort, and it took a long time for us to build to the place where Wall Street and then, ultimately, our economy failed. But we are making real progress coming out of this recession, we are beginning to recover.

And the president is going to make whatever choices he will of leadership. I think Bill Daley is someone who's got a lot of experience at a senior level, both in the private sector and in the public sector. And I look forward to working with him as we tackle the really tough challenges in front of us.

BAIER: Senators, thank you both for being with us and rolling with the punches today on a tough day here in Washington.

COONS: Thank you, Bret.

BAIER: Coming up, the Sunday panel is here. And we'll talk about the shooting in Arizona and what it means in Washington after the break.

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