MSNBC "Countdown with Keith Olbermann" - Transcript

Interview

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OLBERMANN: So, what about them not working now?

And from the president, newfound confidence over what he will do. Quoting, "I can confidently say that--and I haven"t made an announcement, but if I ran for re-election, I could confidently say I would not extend the Bush tax cuts for the well-to-do beyond this two-year deal. I can confidently say that."

Meantime, the latest phony crop of so-called deficit hawks, the Tea Partiers, either endorsing or disingenuously opposing this deal. From Dick Armey"s astroturfing FreedomWorks, it supports the $858 billion bill because it represents, quote, "an opportunity avert the coming tax disaster," end quote. You know, the disaster in which the taxes of millionaires and billionaires might be taxed.

But the Tea Party Patriots cite conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt, saying that the bill, quote, "spends billions and billions of dollars that the country doesn"t have in order to prevent a tax hike the country voted against." Translation, they like the Bush tax cuts but not the Obama tax cuts and they hate unemployment insurance extension.

And, by the way, the country did not vote against tax hikes for millionaires.

So, who did actually vote against this mess? The nays included Republican Senators John Ensign, Tim Coburn, George Voinovich and Jim DeMint. Democrats who stood against the bill included Senator Russ Feingold, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, Senator Patrick Leahy, Senator Mark Udall, Senator Brown and the independent, Senator Bernie Sanders, who in the greatest of ironies will after his 8 ½-hour virtual filibuster last Friday now join me for a 4-minute interview.

Thank you for your time tonight, Senator.

SANDERS: Good to be with you, Keith.

OLBERMANN: More or less, every one of my viewers asked me to extend their thanks and congratulations to you for what you did for this country on Friday.

SANDERS: Thank you very much.

OLBERMANN: But the caveat--the caveat to that is, why were you the only one speaking that way?

SANDERS: Well, I was joined by a couple of others very briefly, but I think we have a problem. And the problem is the Democrats are going to have to show more courage. The president is going to have to show some courage in rallying the American people and changing the narrative.

Keith, it"s not just that this is a bad bill in terms of what it does to the middle class and the benefits it provides to the very wealthy. We are developing a narrative right now which says that despite the fact that the Democrats control the White House, the House of Representatives and the Senate, the Democrats are on the defensive and the Republicans are on the offensive.

And two years from now, after the debate begins and we talk about extending these tax breaks for the rich even more, when we talk about another payroll tax holiday, which means that billions more will not be coming in to Social Security, you"re going to talk about more compromises which says, hey, we didn"t cut Social Security by 20 percent. We only cut it by 10 percent. Aren"t we doing well?

I think we have to change that dynamic.

OLBERMANN: Right now, practically speaking with these tax cuts for the middle class connected at the hip to tax cuts for the wealthy--what other options are there right now? Are there any--is there anyway to kill the tax cuts for the rich, without killing them for the middle class?

SANDERS: At this particular moment?

OLBERMANN: Yes.

SANDERS: Well, unless the Democrats and the House pull off some kind of miracle, I don"t see that that is likely. And my fear is, just what you said earlier in the show, two years from now, I can"t conceive that these tax breaks will not be extended. And furthermore, as this deficit goes up, and as the national debt goes up, trust me, Republicans will come back and say, we want cuts in Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, education, environmental protection.

And we"re going to consistently be on the defensive unless we take the case to the American people, we get them to stand up and put pressure on Republicans rather than us always being on the receiving end of this.

OLBERMANN: The next time unemployment insurance benefits come up for extension in 13 months, Democrats will have to give up what, do you suppose?

SANDERS: Well, I"ll tell you what the Republicans (INAUDIBLE). These concessions, Keith, took place right now--

OLBERMANN: Yes.

SANDERS: -- with the Democrats controlling three branches. What do you think happens next time? The Republicans apparently do not see the word "concession" within their lexicon. That"s not what they do.

So, I think unless the American people begin to stand up, and really demand that the Congress protect ordinary people rather than the very wealthy, we"re going to continue to be on the defensive.

OLBERMANN: Why was there this rush, ultimately, to call all this that was done today--not only a middle class protection bill, but a bipartisan effort? What was that all about? You know the political theater about it better than the rest of us.

SANDERS: Well, I mean, I think what the president is moving forward towards is more, quote/unquote, "bipartisan activity." If you look at that deficit reduction commission, Alan Simpson--that was--there"s a lot of bad stuff in there, and I am very nervous that unless we really get moving aggressively, raising the retirement age of Social Security, cutting Social Security benefits, cutting back on education, et cetera, that is going to be the mantra for deficit reduction rather than progressive taxation, doing away with corporate tax loopholes, going after excessive military spending.

I"m afraid we"re going to be on the defensive, and that is what concerns me about this bill. Not only was it not a good bill, it sets the tone for more and more retreat in the coming two years. Our job and the president"s job go out to the American people, rally them, ask them--how many people want to see substantial cuts in Social Security? How many people want to see more tax breaks for the rich and cutbacks in education?

That"s the approach that we"ve got to take, I think.

OLBERMANN: And unless that"s done, everybody will see those things and then say, we don"t want them, and it will be too late to do anything about it. Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, again, great thanks for your time tonight. And it was an extraordinary thing to watch on Friday. Thank you for upholding democracy.

SANDERS: Thank you, very much, Keith.

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