MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript

Interview

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Let"s bring in Congressman Dennis Kucinich now, who wrote the letter to Mr. Issa, asking him to show proof because he was on earlier this week on one of the other network saying that this money was being floated as political payback. Congressman, in your opinion, how serious is this? This is an accusation.

REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D), OHIO: Well, it"s serious when you consider that Mr. Issa"s the presumptive chair of an investigative committee that has the power to compel the production of records and to subpoena people to appear before the committee. He has to be very judicious in his approach to the use of that power. And what I heard was something that went beyond intemperate and went to the point of making charges, absent any real evidence. When you are in a position of being a judge and the person who holds that gavel has great responsibility to the American people to handle and conduct himself in a way that reflects on or in the House of--in credit to the House of Representatives and to the American people.

And so I wrote Mr. Issa that letter, saying that if you have such evidence, bring it forward. But if you don"t, he"s going to have to retract what he said. Because you cannot make those kinds of charges when you"re chairman of a committee, when you"re the one who supposed to be able to judge the evidence that"s presented. And if you make a charge without the evidence, that is a real problem for our Congress.

Here is the comment that was made by Mr. Issa, which I think is a bold accusation, without proof. Here it is.

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REP. DARRELL ISSA ®, CALIFORNIA: His administration received $700 billion worth of walking around money in the stimulus and used to just that way. A great deal was used for political payback. His administration has a lot of explaining, where the $700 billion went. Where investigations that should have gone on particularly into ACORN, an organization that he had passed, influenced with, and should be willing to do a lot to end. I think those have to be dealt with.

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SCHULTZ: Political payback, that is his quote, right there. And I appreciate you challenging him on this because they just throw it out there. And see if it"ll stick. This is a congressman who said earlier that he thought that President Obama was one of the most corrupt presidents in modern times. He later backtracks on that, when he was called on it, but here he is again. Now saying that he used it for political payback. Your thoughts again, congressman?

KUCINICH: Well, it"s one thing to talk about politics, but when you start to imply that possibly illegal conduct is involved, one has to be very cautious and one must be very reserved with the kind of power of that gavel of an investigative committee. And I hope to talk--I will talk to Mr. Issa when we return to Congress next week to, not just caution him, but to tell him that it"s absolutely mandatory that he either produces this evidence or retract it. He cannot, as the presumptive chair of an investigative committee, proceed in a way that causes people"s reputations to be besmirched absent any evidence whatsoever. That is an inappropriate way to proceed, and Mr. Issa is going to be properly cautioned about what the American people and Congress has--have a right to expect with respect to the conduct of the chairman of that very important investigative committee.

SCHULTZ: Congressman, another story I want to bring up with you tonight is the deficit commission proposals. In short form there"s some pretty tough stuff there, if we"re going to reach this $4 trillion mark of trying to set our country free, economically. They want to slash Social Security. Raise their retirement age, they also want to set new limits on Medicare. And they want to end several middle-class tax cuts on its surfaces and it"s not completely detailed, what"s your first impression of what former Senator Simpson and Erskine Bowles have come forward with?

KUCINICH: Well, we know that the committee already is--was stacked with individuals who represented various interest groups who have long wanted to privatize Social Security and who believe that Medicare ought to be reduced. The fact of the matter is that if you reduce Medicare or Social Security benefits, you"re actually contributing to the acceleration of the wealth of the nation upwards. You cannot take any more from the middle class, they"re already suffering. You can"t tell people to work a lifetime and put their money into Social Security, that the benefit levels are not going to be there and we cannot reduce actual Medicare services to people who depend on them. Now we can cut the Pentagon budget.

We can cut it substantially without in any way jeopardizing our defense. We can get out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Which will save the American people hundreds of billions of dollars of in tax money. We have to take a new approach. So there is a way to deal with the deficit and we also have to start thinking of how do we get America back to work, Ed? You know, we can keep talking about deficit. There"s 15 million Americans who don"t have a job, there"s 12 million underemployed, there are people who are still worried about losing their homes. We"ve got to get America out of this financial ditch and this obsession of taking care of the deficit through cutting Social Security benefits and Medicare is just wrong. And it"s not going to fly. We have to go forward and provide for prosperity in this country and not cause the middle class to be thrown overboard.

SCHULTZ: Congressman Dennis Kucinich, great to have you with us tonight. Thanks so much.

Now, let"s get some rapid fire response from our panel on these stories. The White House is hitting back after reports said that the president was ready to cave in on the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.

The Pentagon says, repealing Don"t Ask, Don"t Tell would have virtually no negative impact on the troops. So what will the new majority do with that issue?

And a new poll shows that Sarah Palin is by far, the most polarizing of the potential 2012 republican presidential candidates.

Joining us tonight, Bill Press, nationally syndicated radio talk show host. And Michael Medved, also a conservative and nationally syndicated radio talk show host. Gentlemen, good to have you with us tonight. Bill, you first, what is happening on the Bush tax cuts. Where is the administration? Are they wavering, and what do you think the expectations are of the base?

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