ABC "This Week" - Transcript

Interview

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AMANPOUR: Let me ask Senator Graham. Certainly China and Germany, as you heard, did question America's global leadership. Do you think that is, if not actually, at least symbolically and psychologically damaging for the United States?

GRAHAM: Well, I don't want to overreact here. The currency issue was disappointing to me. Clearly, China does manipulate the value of the yuan to get an advantage in exports. They already have enough advantages. I was disappointed with the other nations who would not get behind President Obama to push the Chinese to change their currency policy.

But, yeah, you know, at the end of the day, we're getting criticism. Does that mean we're losing influence? Not necessarily so.

But on the currency front and trade front, this was a disappointing meetings. We need a trade agreement with Korea. We need to fight back against China currency manipulation. And I think you're going to see the Congress get more involved on the currency front after this trip.

AMANPOUR: Well, certainly the U.S. also being accused of trying to push down and weaken its own currency. You know, you say that this is perhaps just a sort of temporary statement by these countries, but doesn't -- doesn't America have to get its economic house in order, in order to be able to lead on a whole number of other issues, Senator?

GRAHAM: Yes, I think Secretary Clinton -- I think Secretary Clinton got it right that our looming deficit is a national security problem for us, and the only way you can get America's financial house in order is do a bipartisan agreement on entitlement reform.

Earmark's important. That's just on the margins. But if you really want to get America back in business, we've got to come to grips with Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and find bipartisan agreements to reform entitlements before it's too late.

We're an aging population. A lot of baby boomers are going to retire. We've got fewer workers, and we need to do that sooner rather than later.

AMANPOUR: Well, we're going to discuss this later on, but do you think there will be compromise?

GRAHAM: There must be. Look what happened with health care when you tried to jam it through on a party-line vote. We need to get Social Security stabilized before it goes into permanent bankruptcy. We're going to have to increase the age. We're going to have to manipulate benefits for upper-income Americans. We've got to put everything on the table, including stable revenues. And I'd like to see this commission help lead the Congress to get some results that have been kicked down the road for far too long.

AMANPOUR: OK. Let me bring up now some of the key foreign policy issues that go to the heart of American prestige and for the president's prestige, the START Treaty, the New START Treaty. Do you think that it will be ratified coming in this lame-duck session?

ALBRIGHT: I think it's very important that it be ratified. The president has said it's a priority issue during the lame-duck session. He just finished a meeting with President Medvedev when they were in Japan, and the president restated that it was a priority issue.

And the reason it is, is that it's -- first of all, it's a good treaty. But part of the problem is we remember President Reagan said trust, but verify. And what has happened is that the verification procedures have now not been in place for almost a year, so we need that treaty for that.

Plus, I think that we really do -- the relationship with the Russians is very important. They've been very helpful on Iran. And I think -- I hope very, very much that the lame-duck session recognizes the importance of the treaty.

AMANPOUR: And, Senator Graham, Senator Kerry has already said that he believes it can happen in December. President Obama said it must happen in the lame-duck session. Do you believe that it will be voted on and ratified in the lame-duck session?

GRAHAM: I don't know. I'm very open-minded about the treaty. As Secretary Albright indicated, it's an important relationship between the United States and Russia. I think Russia could do more, but they have been more helpful.

You've got two impediments. Modernization. Not only do we need a START Treaty; we need to modernize our nuclear force, the weapons that are left, to make sure they continue to be a deterrent. And we need to make sure that we can employ -- deploy missile defense systems that are apart from START.

So you've got two stumbling blocks, the modernization program and how missile defense works apart from the treaty.

AMANPOUR: Will you vote for it?

GRAHAM: Jon Kyl is -- in its current condition, no, but Jon Kyl is working with the administration to get better modernization to make sure that missile defense is not connected to START. If you could get those two things together, I would vote for the treaty.

I'd rather have a treaty than not have a treaty, but modernization and missile defense have to be better dealt with before we get there.

AMANPOUR: Let me ask you about some news today. You've just come back from Afghanistan and Iraq with a congressional delegation. And there's a story in the Washington Post about how President Karzai seems to be at odds fundamentally with U.S. policy there. Did that come up at all in your conversations with him?

GRAHAM: You know, Christiane, I'm just stunned. We had a great meeting. We had dinner with Senator McCain, Lieberman, myself, Petraeus, Ambassador Eikenberry with President Karzai. The focus of the article is the night raids.

We were briefed by our military commanders that the night raids are -- we own the night (ph) militarily, are making huge impact on the Taliban, the insurgency as a whole, and we're having Afghan partners. This didn't come up at all.

We talked about, quite frankly, looking long term with Afghanistan about having two air bases in a permanent fashion in Afghanistan to provide stability, so at the end of the day, there was no discussion about a difference between Petraeus and Karzai, in terms of strategy.

And I would just add this: If we cannot use night raids with our Afghan partners, then that's a big loss in terms of gaining security.

The Petraeus plan, the Petraeus strategy must be allowed to go forward for us to be successful. The security gains are -- are obvious. We're not there yet, but we're moving in the right direction, and to take the night raids off the table would be a disaster.

AMANPOUR: Well, let me ask you quickly and briefly on this issue of Afghanistan, also. Was President Karzai -- or, rather, do you believe that the U.S. troops will stay in significant numbers post the summer 2011 deadline?

GRAHAM: Yes, I do. I think in summer of 2011, we can bring some troops home, but we're going to need a substantial number of troops in Afghanistan past that.

2014 is the right date to talk about. That's when Karzai suggests that Afghans will be in the lead, and I'm very pleased to hear President Obama talk about 2014.

What I want to talk about is winning, having the ability to stabilize Afghanistan and be a good partner with the United States forever. That means we're going to need military force for quite a while. Post-2014, when the Afghans hopefully get in the lead, it will be great to have a couple of air bases there in perpetuity to help the Afghans to send the right signal to the regions, but none of this is possible unless you have a reliable partner in the Afghan government, so they need to do more quickly on corruption.

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AMANPOUR: Do you think -- because you've been quoted, Senator Graham, just recently -- that there are two wings now of the Republican Party when it comes to foreign policy, that you will look inwards or outwards. And I also want to ask you about your trip to Iraq.

GRAHAM: Well, let me tell you, I think -- I'm in the wing that wants to look outward and have effective engagements throughout the world, so that's why I'm glad to see that President Obama is backing off this idea we're going to leave in 2011 and talk about 2014 and make everything conditions-based.

You know, I worry that we're going to fumble the ball in Iraq. President -- Mr. Allawi, the biggest vote-getter in the recent elections, who is a Shia who married up with Sunnis to give a different vision for -- for Iraq, has said that this the new government is a joke. If he feels that, that's disappointing.

It's very important we get a government formed in Iraq that's inclusive, that represents the results of the Iraqi election, and that is a reliable partner with the United States and the region.

So I've got concerns about this new government. But we need to stay involved -- effectively involved. And I'm in the camp of the Republican Party that wants to work with President Obama to end it well in Iraq, to get it right in Afghanistan, contain Iran through effective sanctions.

And to my friends in the Republican Party who want to withdraw, you do so at your own peril, but the administration has to do their part. They're not being as effective as I think they can be in Iraq and Afghanistan. And when it comes to Iran, our sanctions efforts are not working as well as I would like, so I'd ask them to step up their game, as well.

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