MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript

Interview

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MATTHEWS: Wow. Something is going. I think the ice is cracking here.

So, will Democrats do what the president want, or are they ready to give the Republicans, give some of them their demands?

With us now, two Democratic House members who support the president"s position on tax cuts, Maryland"s Donna Edwards, who sits on the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, and Kentucky"s John Yarmuth, who sits on the Ways and Means Committee.

I want to start--Donna, thank--Congresswoman, thank you so much for joining us.

We have got a very close personal friend we just lost, Smith Bagley.

Let me--let me ask you about this. Are there any of your colleagues that are thinking maybe Chris Van Hollen is speaking for them, meaning this debate shouldn"t be about the long term right now, during this recession; maybe there might be a delay in raising these tax rates back to where they were, rather than, in the middle of a recession, raising rates for anybody?

Is there any chance that might be the final outcome here?

REP. DONNA EDWARDS (D), MARYLAND: Well, I think the outcome, at least for me, and I think for a number of Democrats, is, you know, we want to make sure that we protect working families, people making under $250,000, extend those tax cuts. And for the 2 percent that are consuming $830 billion in the tax cuts, let"s remove those for those upper income earners. I think this is really simple. And there are other ways and tools that we can look at stimulating the economy.

MATTHEWS: So, you"re for a return permanently to the higher rates for the wealthy?

EDWARDS: Absolutely. I mean, what"s really clear is that people making under $250,000 actually put their money back into the economy. Those who make more than that simply don"t. And they don"t deserve $830 billion that"s really not paid for at all for all the deficit hawks that would be taken--put back into this--into this economy.

So, no way we should be extending tax cuts for that top 2 percent.

Let"s protect the 98 percent.

MATTHEWS: Congressman Yarmuth, a buzz in the cloakroom. Is there some buzz to say the last thing the Democrats need going into an election is to tell their contributors, a lot of whom do make over $250,000 a year, that their taxes are going up, thanks to the Democrats?

REP. JOHN YARMUTH (D), KENTUCKY: Well--yes, I think that there"s certainly that concern. But, you know, the CBO said that if we let these tax cuts be extended, we"re going to be on a course to extend that historic record of deficit and debt in relation to GDP in 15 years.

The right issue now, I think if we wanted to, if we really want to prove we"re interested in deficit reduction as a party, we need to make sure--as Donna said--that we don"t foot back this money into the millionaire"s hands. We"ve had over the last few years of the greatest increase in disparity of the wealthiest Americans and anybody else.

MATTHEWS: That"s true.

YARMUTH: Yes.

MATTHEWS: That"s certainly true. Let"s take--

YARMUTH: So, we don"t need to exacerbate that.

MATTHEWS: Well, let"s take a look here. Some your Democratic colleagues, what they"re saying out there.

Virginia"s Gerry Connolly told the "Associated Press," quote, "In my view, this is no time to do anything that could be jarring to a fragile economy."

Alabama"s Bobby Bright, he"s a conservative Democrat, said, "I"ve heard from a vast majority of the my constituents that they don"t want to believe--they don"t want to believe--or they don"t believe in tax increases on anybody at this point in time."

Over to the Senate, Evan Bayh, who is leaving the Senate, said, quote, "The economy is very weak right now. Raising taxes will lower consumer demand at a time when we want people putting more money into the economy."

And Kent Conrad from North Dakota told "McClatchy," "The general rule of thumb is that you do not raise taxes or cut spending during an economic downturn. That would be counterproductive."

So, there you have it. Let me ask you this. Here"s the problem it seems to me and you folks are the pros. And I"m watching this.

And you, Congresswoman Edwards, first of all. What good will it do you politically if you pass a bill in the House in the next two months before the election, which raises taxes back to their old level for the rich. You go over to the Senate. They can"t get the 60 votes to do that.

They can"t get the 60 votes to do. And you"re stuck with your neck out there having been for higher taxes, including those for your contributors, the people with the big money, and you can"t make it into law. So, you"re just out there exposed. Republicans come in next year and they protect the rich. So, all you did was to expose yourself politically with no real social policy benefits.

Your thoughts.

EDWARDS: Well, let me tell you, I think that those are the political concerns, Chris. And I think that we have to be on the same page in the Senate and the House so that we can actually get a bill to the president.

And you"re right. I don"t think it makes sense for us to go into this blindly. But the fact is, that for 98 percent of working families making under $250,000, we need to extend those tax cuts and make them permanent. And there are other things that we can do. We can authorize our transportation--

MATTHEWS: But can you do it? I"m sorry to interrupt. But can you actually get that done before you lose control of Congress? Before this session ends?

EDWARDS: Well, I think--

MATTHEWS: Can you actually raise taxes back to their old rates under Clinton, which weren"t that horrible. Obviously, 39 ½ percent. It didn"t break the economy, a huge economy in the 1990s. I think some of the people should remember that. We were booming back then with those rates.

But if you can"t get back to those rates and you try, is it going to be like cap and trade? One of those things.

Let me go to Congressman Yarmuth. I"m putting all the heat on you.

Let me go to Congressman Yarmuth.

YARMUTH: Well, I"ll give you the answer.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: To be on the right side on taxes--

YARMUTH: I"ll give you the answer.

MATTHEWS: with the middle class that were getting hit.

YARMUTH: You answered the question. You answered the question, Chris.

MATTHEWS: Oh, you want me to throw it back to her. Aren"t you a nice guy?

YARMUTH: No, no, no. The answer is, the answer to the political argument is, that you show whose side you"re on. And I think they show whose side your own, we"re on the side of the vast majority, the 98 percent of the American people whose standard of living hasn"t really increased over the last decade.

My brother is in that category. My brother is in the barbecue business. He"s done very well. He doesn"t care about paying that additional 4.5 percent. He"s in the barbecue business. He said to me, I want to make sure everybody else can afford barbecue because if they can"t afford barbecue, it doesn"t matter what my tax rate is.

And I think that"s where we are as an economy. We got to make sure that everybody else does well.

MATTHEWS: OK.

YARMUTH: Not those 2 percent at the top.

MATTHEWS: OK. Well said. Thank you guys both for coming on a weekend. Have a happy Labor Day. I know Democrats, especially, celebrate Labor Day.

Thank you, U.S. Congresswoman Donna Edwards of Maryland.

U.S. Congressman Yarmuth, John Yarmuth, nice to meet you sir.

YARMUTH: Nice to meet you, Chris.

MATTHEWS: You and the congressman, thank you so much.

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