MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript

Interview

MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript

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MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL. Well, both the House and the Senate might take action this week on the military don"t ask, don"t tell policy. Can Democrats find enough votes to repeal it or will they have to find some other way to end it? Democratic Congressman Loretta Sanchez of California is a member of the House Armed Services Committee. Congresswoman, it"s great to have you on, on an issue that I think is very upbeat for a lot of people and a matter of concern for some
others. Most Americans--I'm talking about 70 percent in all the polling,the best polls--want to end this discrimination. They say, if you want to serve your country, man or woman, whatever your orientation you are left with or born with, you have a right to do what you want for your country, a right to be patriotic and serve it in the military. That"s your view, right?

REP. LORETTA SANCHEZ (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, my view would be that actually serving in the military is not necessarily a right, but it is a privilege. And if you like, if you want to and you have the skills to serve us and we can put you to work in the military, then you should be able to and we should take advantage of that and use you as one of our military people.

MATTHEWS: Well, what are the chances right now? I'm looking at it. The Republicans can oppose this, I hear, by simply saying they want to see the results of a military study, the old--the old--well, the old dodge, if you will, of saying I'm waiting to get more facts, I don't really know, as if common sense and human decency isn't enough of a guide here.

SANCHEZ: Well, first of all, the report will be out in December. So if we cannot get the votes this week, in some way, either from the Senate or from the House, to be able to pass an amendment that would allow gay members who are in the service to serve openly, then we can wait until December and see what that says. However, I believe we may have the votes. We'll continue to take a look and see if we can do this.
There are several reasons we should do it. Efficiency; it takes so much effort, so much energy, so much money to find these people and to get them out of the military. So it's just a waste of time really. Secondly, a readiness issue. There have been at least 800 gay members of the military that we have taken out that were in critical spots that we needed their skill sets. So that's important. And then of course the whole issue of fairness. Americans are about fairness. So when you--I think Admiral Mullen said it best when he said something about a person should be able to serve and be themselves in the military.

MATTHEWS: What do you make of the General Shalikashvili's comment over the weekend. He wrote a column. There's a man with a lot of military credibility coming out and saying you ought to end it right now; don't wait for the military to do it. If you let the military think about it some more, it will slow the whole process down.

SANCHEZ: The other side would say that it's a matter of cohesiveness of the unit. But I guess I would say back to them, listen, the cohesiveness of our unit, it's intact. They are very strong and this will not affect them. They can take a gay person being in their unit. I think people don't realize how strong our men and women are in the military. They can take this.

MATTHEWS: Do you have any conversations with your people across the aisle from Republicans? I know you get along with people. Is it--do they say--do they give you good reasons for opposing it or do they just think it's politics? Are there people that you meet in Congress who honestly think it's wrong for a person who is born gay to serve in the military? Do they honestly believe that? When they know it's always happened. It's happened since the beginning of time probably.

SANCHEZ: Chris, you know as well as I do there are members in the Congress who are opposed to gay anything. And that's where they come from and that's what they believe, and so they will be opposed to anything that has anything to do with gay people. On the other hand, I have talked to some of my Republican friends here in the Congress who understand that it's politics, or they're worried about their elections back home, or they don't know how this will play. And then there are some who are truly concerned about this whole issue of unit cohesiveness. I continue to tell them, listen, that our units are strong. They can take this. So when you look at the amount of time wasted on this, the amount of money wasted on this, and when you look at the readiness issue of our military, I think it's about time we end Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

MATTHEWS: There"s a big piece in "Politico" this morning, congresswoman--I don"t know if you saw it--about gay staffers on Capitol Hill. They work for members of Congress on both sides of the aisle, in both the Senate and the House. Are they having--what do they say to their bosses? You have transgender people up there, which sort of surprised me. But I guess it's part of life. They are all up there. Do they ever say, hey, boss, I know we're Republicans, but don't we think people like me ought to have a chance to serve their country? Me, being one of these Republican staffers?

SANCHEZ: Well, certainly, there are a mix of people up here as you know, including many gay and lesbian staffers up here. I don't know the discussions that they have with their member of Congress. I would just say that it must be pretty sad and disheartening for someone to be gay and to see their boss voting against something that would allow them, for example, to serve openly in the military. Remember, one of the things about Don't Ask, Don't Tell is the Don't Ask part of Don't Ask, Don't Tell means that members of the gay community do get to serve in the military. It's just can they serve openly in the military? That's where the Don't Tell comes in.

MATTHEWS: Let's get down to what's probably going to happen. In the Senate, they are voting this week. They're trying to get six new members--six--nobody has committed yet. They're trying to get votes. It looks to me like it's a tough fight. If they don't get it-- if you don't get it in the House, if you don't get this passed to the president this week, would you like to see the president come out and be more forceful? I don't think he's been very loud on this topic.

SANCHEZ: Well, again, people forget this, but it is true that the Congress makes the policy for the military. Article I, Section VIII says that Congress is in charge of the military. So if the president would make the moves to try to change this, I'm sure that there probably are enough votes in the Congress. If they're not there to change Don't Ask, Don't Tell, there may be the votes to go after the president. We'll have to take a look at it. I think we may be close, Chris. I think it's a little bit tougher, actually, in the House of Representatives than it is over on the Senate side.

MATTHEWS: That's what I read.

SANCHEZ: We'll see the Senate. And if they can move it, and they think they can--Chairman Levin thought that he would have the votes maybe. If they can move it, then we'll work very hard and continue to work to find them on the House side.

MATTHEWS: Maybe it's time for people who are gay and Republicans - I'm thinking of the Log Cabin Republicans to make some noise on this. I don't know how they can be active Republicans, active in politics and don't believe they should have the right to serve their country if they're getting involved in politics. Anyway, that amazes me.

SANCHEZ: Again, Chris, it's a privilege. It's a privilege to serve in the military. I hope every military member feels that way.

MATTHEWS: Well, it's a privilege, but I also think if you want to serve, it's a right. Anyway, thank you Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez.

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