MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript

Interview

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SCHULTZ: For more, let me bring in Democratic Congressman Jim Moran

of Virginia who has been a staunch supporter of repealing, "Don"t ask,

Don"t tell." Congressman, respond to that less sound bite about morale,

about efficiency, proficiency, all of the things that the strong man

arguments that are being placed up in front of it right now, what do you

think?

REP. JIM MORAN (D), VIRGINIA: I think that the most important

characteristic of our military"s morale is integrity. And this childish

policy does not allow gay men and women to show the kind of integrity that

they want to show as professionals. It is a wrong policy. It is not

serving the interests of our country. We have about 66,000 gay men and

women in the military. They want to serve their country. They want to

be honest about who they are. And as Barry Goldwater who also was the

senator from Arizona said, you don"t have to be straight to shoot straight.

These people are people we need in the military. And it defies common sense that during the time when we"ve had this policy the number of waivers granted to people for violent felonies like rape, violent sexual assault, manslaughter, we"ve even waived people who were convicted of bomb threats. We let them in because they"re straight and we exclude people who for no other reason than because of their sexual orientation. It is a policy that needs to change and I really admire Secretary Gates and Admiral Mullen and in fact I thought Chairman Levin did a hell of a job today.

SCHULTZ: Well, let me ask you. What do we need to study? What is there to study? Gates announced this year-long study on how it is going to be implemented. Is that necessary in your opinion?

MORAN: No. We have a Rand study that was done back in 1993. And they concluded after extensive research that this was not a threat to the morale. This is part--there are some people in the military and outside the military who aren"t comfortable with this because it"s different, it"s threatening and they can explain why they"re so threatened themselves. But another thing we need to be aware of I think, Ed, that hasn"t been discussed in this context is that women who represent 15 percent of the military represent 50 percent of the people who are being discharged because of the "Don"t ask, Don"t tell" rule.

I think it"s a way that some male officers are dealing with something they never wanted to accept which are women in the military. These things need to change. The next generation doesn"t care about this issue. They know it"s not a substantive reason to exclude somebody when you need them in the military. But there are some just holdovers that simply ought not to be directing our policy.

SCHULTZ: And are you convinced that we have a weaker military because we have discharged over 10,000 men and women for sexual preference?

MORAN: There"s no question in my mind. Number one, we have to waive people who shouldn"t be waived into the military to make up for that. And secondly, we have discharged more than 800 mission-critical specialists. We already discharged 68 people who are fluent in Arabic and Farsi, languages we desperately need. We"ve discharged hundreds of intelligence specialists, doctors--these people we need, and we"re discharging them?

SCHULTZ: Congressman, does it matter that other countries allow gays to serve in the military in.

MORAN: Well, I think we should recognize the fact that Europe, Canada, Israel, all let gays in the military. You know the countries that don"t? Russia, China, Iran and North Korea. And we"re going to follow their lead?

SCHULTZ: Congressman, good to have you with us tonight. Thanks so much. Appreciate your time.

MORAN: Thank you.

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