CNN "Campbell Brown" - Transcript

Interview

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And with me now to talk about this is our chief business correspondent Ali Velshi and Democratic Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur of Ohio who sits on the House Appropriations Committee.

Congresswoman, welcome to you.

REP. MARCY KAPTUR (D), OHIO: Thank you.

BROWN: I'm going to start with Ali on this to have you explain it. Mind-boggling numbers.

ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely.

BROWN: What's going on?

VELSHI: It's hard to believe. I think it's even hard to receive for some of the recipients this is what we're talking about, bonuses of this size. The issue is that the companies that these people work for are making money. These are companies that have been involved in Wall Street. They are involved in investing. And in fact, most of the money that's been made on Wall Street in the last year has been because they invested.

Now we've all seen the stock market is way up. These people are getting paid as part of their structure, because their companies are making money. So there'd be more outraged if the Dow were actually down, and no one could have made money than these folks are. But there's a real sense of outrage that we're suffering unemployment. People are still losing their homes. Home prices are still low, and these folks are getting credit.

BROWN: And there's no credit, by the way. You can't borrow and then --

VELSHI: And you can't borrow but those who started with some money are making off with even more.

BROWN: So, do you think it's justifiable in any way?

VELSHI: I think there's a lot of justifiable anger about it. I think the anger is justifiable because we're suffering. People are suffering.

BROWN: But no. But talk about the company.

VELSHI: Well, the companies are making the money. So if they weren't paying their executives, they're still making the money. It's not that companies are not making money. These are not TARP recipients. These are people who paid back the people of America and they're now paying their people.

BROWN: OK. But here's my question with this. And you're the expert. I don't -- I'm still trying to learn about this stuff, but I'm reading the story by Jonas Serra (ph)...

VELSHI: Yes.

BROWN: ... who is a reporter for "The New York Times." It's not just about you borrowed TARP money and you paid it back.

VELSHI: Right.

BROWN: He goes through this laundry list of all the ways that the taxpayers have supported these companies.

VELSHI: Yes.

BROWN: And if I read this list, it would take up the entire segment. But the bottom line, he says, is that the biggest benefit they get is that we now know no matter what happens, no matter what risks these companies take, they are too big to fail. You've heard the line.

VELSHI: Yes. And they're bigger now than they were when we first thought.

BROWN: And that the government will do anything in order to save them.

VELSHI: Yes.

BROWN: So how is this fair? Like, if I have a company, I don't get that sort of guarantee.

VELSHI: Yes.

BROWN: And why should these guys be compensated?

VELSHI: You've hit on the point, but there are two issues. The companies are protected. The companies are making money. They are too big to fail, and they are paying their people with the money that they're earning.

So two separate issues. We are tired of people who got us into this financial mess getting paid. These aren't necessarily the people who got us into the financial mess. They just happen to be in a very highly paid industry and they're paid so much more than the average American. That is frustrating. BROWN: Do you agree with that? Are these not the guys who got us into this mess, Congresswoman Kaptur?

KAPTUR: I think what's happening is outrageous. It's almost unpatriotic. $30 billion in bonuses translates to 600,000 jobs. We'd like just three percent of those dollars out here in our region of the country in northwestern Ohio to put the people who are out of work because of what Wall Street did, back to work.

I say to myself, where are the great leaders on Wall Street today? We used to have Bernard Baruch (ph). You think about our country. We had great military leaders like George Marshall. You think about Jonas Salk, who didn't even have a patent on polio vaccine. I don't see any of that coming out of Wall Street.

$30 billion. So I have a bill to take it away, literally to tax their money and to pay some of the debt back that we owe to everyone else in the world because of their imprudent behavior.

VELSHI: I think that's a terrible idea but that said, I think you're absolutely right, Congresswoman, on the idea of leadership. That is what has been absent. There hasn't been a mea culpa. There hasn't been, and I'm sorry there hasn't been and I feel your pain. And let me share in the pain of Americans.

I think you're dead on on that. I think it is very, very dangerous to be taxing people's income back. These people haven't broken a law. They haven't done that. We are just angry at them and some of that anger is justified.

KAPTUR: Yes, we're angry at them. You know, $600,000 a year in just bonus rewards? Out here in our region, people's average income is $35,000. And those very same companies that are getting all this money to their top executives, they're not doing mortgage workouts out here. We're seeing the very same companies that caused the crisis come in and clean up on these properties.

Eighty percent of the properties being sold out here are from outside investors and companies formed by the very same people that did this. So it's like a circle. The American people have a basic sense of fairness. What is going on is truly unfair and the net yield of what's happening is our banking system is becoming more concentrated.

The five big ones now...

BROWN: Right.

KAPTUR: ... they have almost 40 percent of the deposits in this country in 12 institutions control the credit card business in this country.

BROWN: And that is a much bigger discussion. But that is obviously what we have to get at. Congresswoman Kaptur, we appreciate your time. Ali Velshi, as always, thanks for coming in. Ali, thanks so much. We'll be back in a moment. Berlin, of course, we're going to talk about it in a minute. A very big party happening there tonight. Check it out.

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