MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript

Interview

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Joining me now is Wyoming Senator John Barrasso, Dr. Barrasso. He is with us. We have sparred time and time again in a polite and respectful way on this issue. All right, senator, the bottom line, it appears that we are going to have a public option. Would you surrender that today, based on what Senator Reid said today?

SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R), WYOMING: Absolutely not. We'll have to wait and see the bill. I saw him quoting those numbers about the overwhelming support around the country. Overwhelming Rasmussen poll this weekend, people are opposed to any of this health care reform that he's trying to push down the throats of the American people. It is going to raise the costs of care. It's going to make care less available and less of a quality.

So this is not a good plan and the American people get it.

SCHULTZ: Senator, then you must go along with the opt out, because now there are going to be governors involved. There's going to be state legislators involved, House and Senate. How it works out, whether it's unicameral, or whatever it is in some states. Here's the question: how could you not go along with that?

BARRASSO: I would like people to be able to opt out of all of it. Opt out of the Medicaid requirements that are going to be in it, opt out of the increased taxes, opt out of the cuts in Medicare. I'd love to have states have an opportunity to opt out of the entire thing, not just the government-run insurance program.

Harry Reid hasn't even made this bill available to his own members. He's going to share it with them tomorrow at lunch. The American people want to see what's in this 1,000-page bill that's going to cost over a trillion dollars, and cut 500 billion dollars from Medicare.

SCHULTZ: Wait a minute, senator. You don't know if it's going to cost a trillion, because the CBO hasn't scored it yet. The CBO did score the one in the House. And it came under budget on the House side. There's a good chance that this one is going to come under budget as well, from what the president has put out there.

BARRASSO: Under budget meaning cut, what, less than 500 billion dollars from seniors? I was at a rehab hospital talking to seniors this weekend in Wyoming. American seniors are scared to death that all this money is going to come away from their Medicare program to start a whole new program. This is money that was designed for the seniors.

SCHULTZ: You think that Wyoming would opt out of this? No one in Wyoming would want a public option? If it were to go to a vote, Wyoming would be a state that wouldn't want anything to do with this?

BARRASSO: They'd want to be able to opt out of the taxes, the Medicare cuts, the unfunded mandate of Medicaid, as well as this government run insurance program.

SCHULTZ: They're going to have a chance to do that, senator.

BARRASSO: They don't want to have to pay for other states that want to be part of it either.

SCHULTZ: Senator, they're going to have a chance to do that. This could be the-

BARRASSO: We'll see the bill. I'd like to see if they can really opt out of the whole thing, or if it's just going to do it with the government-run program. I think they want to opt out of the Medicare cuts and the Medicaid mandates.

SCHULTZ: Senator, you know you're behind the curve on this one. You know there's going to be a public option. You know where the majority of the American people are. And yet the Republican party is still against all of this.

BARRASSO: The majority of the American people, Ed, in the Rasmussen poll this weekend, are against the whole thing.

SCHULTZ: Come on, John.

BARRASSO: Poll after poll against the whole thing. And, you know, on this government-run insurance, polls are on different sides of this. Take enough polls, you can see the numbers.

SCHULTZ: I guess you'll have to work on winning some elections then, because you don't have enough people that's going to stop this.

BARRASSO: The American people are clear, if this goes through, the cost of their own care is going to go up, and the quality of their care is going to go down.

SCHULTZ: Senator, let me tell you something, the cost is going to go up whether it's a public option or not. This is about pre-existing condition. This is about-let me ask you this.

BARRASSO: Wasn't this supposed to cut the cost of care? Wasn't that the premise that the president said-

SCHULTZ: It's going to cut the cost of care. I can't believe, senator, that you're still locked on to these ridiculous bullet points from Frank Luntz. Why do you have such an defeatist attitude about health care reform?

BARRASSO: -- people who want to make sure we can help our seniors stay healthy, and keep down the cost of their care.

SCHULTZ: Senator, I can not believe you have such a defeatist attitude towards reform.

BARRASSO: We need reform, Ed. We don't need this reform. We need step-by-step, incremental improvements. And there's a lot we can do to increase competition, to give people more patient-centered care.

SCHULTZ: There's not going to be increased competition under your plan. You know there isn't. Senator, good to have you on.

BARRASSO: Buy insurance across state lines. Thanks, Ed.

SCHULTZ: I thing it's very interesting that you still won't capitulate to what the American people want. I appreciate your time.

BARRASSO: -- every weekend at home.

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