Hearing of the Subcommittee on Labor, Health and Human Services, Education and Related Agencies of the House Committee on Appropriations

Federal News Service

HEADLINE: HEARING OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON LABOR, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES, EDUCATION AND RELATED AGENCIES OF THE HOUSE COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS

SUBJECT: SOCIAL SECURITY APPROPRIATIONS

CHAIRED BY: REPRESENTATIVE ANNE NORTHUP (R-KY)

LOCATION: 2358 RAYBURN HOUSE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C.

WITNESSES:

JO ANNE B. BARNHART, COMMISSIONER, SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION;

JAMES G. HUSE, JR., INSPECTOR GENERAL, SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION

BODY:
REP. RALPH REGULA (R-OH): We will get started. Mrs. Northup is going to take the hearing. I have a number of conflicts this morning but at least we can get started.

Mr. Huse, we're happy to have you here and I understand this is your last hearing. Well, it's a good one to go out on. I've been looking at your record here, 38 years with Social Security. Oh, in the government! I wondered, I thought you must have started at 12 when - (laughter) -- saw you were Secret Service and you were in the United States Army-and you look pretty young to me after all this-but we appreciate what you've done. I was interested in the statistics my staff has here that you had $356 million in this past fiscal year in investigations and you recovered about $55 million in fines and settlements and judgments and over $300 million in projected savings. We thank you. We need it all. (Laughs.)

The budget challenges of this year are substantial because we're getting, supposedly, a point five, half of one percent increase, in our whole budget, domestic budget as opposed to military and homeland security. I said I'm going to look up that guy who wrote that chapter in the Bible about feeding 5,000 with five fish and five loaves, that's about what we're trying to do.

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REP. DON SHERWOOD (R-PA): -- (off mike) -- I'd like to ask about retirement benefits. We legitimately determine that someone is entitled to receive retirement benefits?

MR. HUSE: Correct.

REP. SHERWOOD: But especially when those people receiving retirement benefits are out of the country, what process do we have to determine successfully when they pass away and those benefits should be stopped? And is this as big a problem as I think it is?

MR. HUSE: It's a problem. We're certainly not sure of how big a problem it is, but we don't, as you've already hinted at, have a really great process of knowing exactly what the deceased payee situation is in some of the countries where we have recipients. The agency has had a process of reviewing country-by-country the situation with respect to, you know, elderly recipients. They started a few years ago with those recipients still on the roles who were 100 years old or more, in some of these countries, and they'd do a in-country visit and try to do a face-to-face verification.

The problem is that doesn't really get to the heart of the problem, and this becomes of great concern because if some of these proposed treaties occur, we'll have even a much more significant impact from that, totalization treaties. But we haven't done any work in this area yet. It's an expensive process because you'd have to do it overseas, but it's something we've considered.

REP. SHERWOOD: Well, with your experience, you're in a little position to give us some advice right now. And how seriously should we press on this issue? I understand it's huge, because you have a retiree in a small Mexican village and that retiree passes away and someone within the family will get the check. That's important money for that village and it just-there's no process to have that stop, and we don't look at them till they're 100 years old, which is quite a number.

MR. HUSE: Well, I think we've dropped the number down to the-the agency has dropped down now to the nonagenarian cohort. I don't think they've gone beyond that, though, have they?

MR. : Dropped down to about that level and they basically rely on postcards.

REP. SHERWOOD: To which level?

MR. HUSE: Ninety-year-olds. They've gotten it down to that level. But to be specific and candid, no, there is no real review of this area. It's extremely difficult because you have to seek the cooperation of in-country governmental and non-governmental processes. A lot of countries don't keep the same type of records that we do, and some keep better records than we do. But that's something that only can be done on a cooperative basis with another country, And we need to get a better process there. That's probably work that we can consider doing, as an I.G.

REP. SHERWOOD: Would you care to hazard a guess as to how many billion dollars a year this represents?

MR. HUSE: We'd have to-we'd really have to look at that before we'd put a figure there. I keep looking back to our deputy inspector general for audit, because that's his area of expertise. But we haven't done that work, and I really rarely put a number down unless there's work behind it.

REP. SHERWOOD: Madam Chairman, would it be fair to ask them to get back to me on that?

MR. HUSE: We'd be glad to.

REP. NORTHUP: That would be fine. In fact, I'd suggest maybe you submit it with your questions and then we know it will come back in written form.

MR. HUSE: If you ask us, we'll take a look at that and do some research and get back to you.

REP. SHERWOOD: Thank you very much.