OPEC To Cut Oil Production; Pat Toomey Challenges Incumbent Arlen Specter for PA Seat in Senate

OPEC To Cut Oil Production; Pat Toomey Challenges Incumbent Arlen Specter For PA Seat In Senate

GUESTS: Rep. Peter King, Pete DeCoursey

BYLINE: Mark Shields, Robert Novak, Al Hunt, Margaret Carlson

HIGHLIGHT:
In Fallujah, Iraq, four American security workers were killed in an ambush by machine gun fire and rocket-propelled grenades. As gasoline prices in the United States broke the $2 ceiling, the OPEC cartel meeting in Vienna affirmed its plans to limit the supply of oil. In the Pennsylvania Senate Republican primary on April 27, four term Senator Arlen Specter is being challenged by Congressman Pat Toomey.

April 3, 2004 Saturday

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

SHIELDS: Pete King, let me ask you this. The Marines are outside of Fallujah. There has to be a necessary military response, necessary military response will inevitably involve civilian casualties and Marine casualties. Does that-doesn't that start again a cycle of violence, I mean, the portraits of this further inflaming anti-American feeling? I mean, there's a sense that you don't know how to get out or really what to do.

KING: Well, there's bound to be some anti-American feeling, but there's going to be more if we do nothing. The fact is, we have to make the tough decision. We do have to go into Fallujah. I think the Marines will do it. It'll probably be done within the next several days.

But I also have to disagree with Margaret and Al to this extent. First of all, we can go back and debate what happened after the war, but all of the things that people said were going to happen, as far as refugees, as far as utilities, as far as these mass uprising-did not happen. It is confined to an area. I've been in Baghdad. I've been in Mosul. The fact is, there it is relatively under control. Fallujah has been a city which we stayed outside of, and this group made the mistake of going through the town. They were not supposed to. This was an unauthorized-they were supposed to go around the city. They went through it. It's terrible what happened. But I think we make a mistake if we say this thing is, you know, just collapsing. It's not.

Also, John Kerry-who is he saying we should bring in? I mean, the U.N. won't come in. The French won't come in. The Germans won't come it. So it's not like people are waiting to come in and we won't let them in. And as far as the June 30 turnover date, that was a date insisted upon by the Europeans. They said there won't be any hope of getting help unless we set a date.

Now, we're still going to have our troops there, but we are going to gradually be turning it over to a government. And you know, again, I don't know what the answer is, other than what we're doing now, which I think, in the context of history, will be looked upon as the right thing to have done.

SHIELDS: More of the same, Bob? Is that the answer?

NOVAK: Well, it's-there's no-there's no choice to it. You see, the problem is that we're-we're seven months from a-from an election. It seems like seven days from an election, not seven months. And-and there is just a tendency that whatever happens, you-the politicians are saying, Gee, how can I-how can I protect myself or how can I bring this to my advantage, when I think ordinary Americans out there are just outraged by this-by this-by this barbaric treatment, and the last thing they want is some kind of a bug-out or turning it over to the French.

HUNT: Well, we certainly can't...

(CROSSTALK)

HUNT: Well, we certainly can't bug out, but we have the-we have-that what Brahimi is doing over there now, Bob. Bob has this wonderful formulation. He says, basically, anybody who didn't read history wouldn't understand what was going to happen. Terrible things have happened. Obviously, Paul Wolfowitz and Don Rumsfeld didn't read the same history that Bob Novak did. The aforementioned General Zinni said it in February, not afterward, and this week said...

SHIELDS: He did.

HUNT: ...this week again said the fact that...

NOVAK: So what did...

(CROSSTALK)

HUNT: ...have a post-war plan is shocking. Bob, you have to stay. You can't cut and run.

NOVAK: All right.

HUNT: But what you want to do is basically say, Hey-but there's no accountability. There ought to be accountability from...

CARLSON: And by the way...

HUNT: ...the people who made this mistake.

(CROSSTALK)

NOVAK: ...politics, Al! You know that!

HUNT: That's not politics. That's called accountability.

(CROSSTALK)

KING: First of all, the war was won. Secondly, the fact is, there was no mass migration of refugees out of the country. There was not mass rebellion throughout the country. The fact is, 75, 80 percent of the country wants us to stay. It's 8 to 1 that people say life will be better in Iraq next year than it is now. They're optimistic about the future.

So let's-let's not say--

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: --Republicans practically dragged Clinton--

HUNT: So why are people getting killed all the time?

CARLSON: --through the streets of Mogadishu after--

KING: Well, so did-I was in Congress then.

CARLSON: --after we were attacked-we were attacked there. And so that politics enters into this is not surprising.

SHIELDS: Last word, Margaret Carlson.

KING: I just hoped you would be better.

SHIELDS: Pete? Pete! Last word, Margaret Carlson.

Pete King and THE GANG we'll be back with the White House reversing course on Condoleezza Rice.

ANNOUNCER: Here's your CAPITAL GANG "Trivia Question of the Week." Peter King spent a summer working at Richard Nixon's law firm. Who did he work with? A, Rudy Giuliani; B, George Pataki; or C, Michael Bloomberg? We'll have the answer right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

KING: Probably too much. I felt that, first of all, she should not testify. I do believe in executive privilege. This is the first time ever you're going to have a national security adviser testifying about policy. I think it's something we're going to regret in the future, when it-there's going to be some future event we're going to say, This shouldn't happen.

However, I think they had no choice. I mean, the media gave Richard Clarke and his raging megalomania such a free ride and such a furor had built up, I think it was important that she come in. Condi Rice will do a great job of testifying. She will answer all the questions. I disagree with Margaret. There was absolutely no intelligence of passenger planes being hijacked. The head of Bill Clinton's counterterrorism in the State Department said after September 11, none of the information they had went toward that at all. There was talks of-of a Cessna with explosives. There was talk of a plane being hijacked for kidnapping purposes. Nothing ever was said about passenger planes being hijacked for the purpose of having a mass attack in the United States.

She'll be able to answer all the questions and I think really expose Dick Clarke, also.

SHIELDS: Al Hunt? Your own sense?

HUNT: Well, first of all, one huge myth is that George Bush hangs tough for principles. When it comes to political pressure, he's got a glass jaw. He caved on the 9/11 commission, caved on Homeland Security, and he caved on this. I think everybody last week said he was going to, and he did.

I think Dr. Rice will be a very articulate witness, but whether she'll be credible or not, Peter, I'm not sure. I think there are more contradictions than you suggest, including the fact she was giving a speech on 9/11, which excerpts say she barely mentions terrorism, and yet now they say that was a huge issue for them then.

I would just give one-I would make one just final point, Peter, and that is that one thing that really fascinated me this week was that-that we found out that they-that this administration wasn't turning over lots of papers from the Clinton administration until Bruce Lindsey, a Clinton counsel, said, you know, We want those turned over to the 9/11 commission. Now, there's one of two explanations. Either they really are great civil libertarians in this White House who have a-just a zealous regard for Bill Clinton's privacy, or they're trying to cover up some more stuff.

KING: Well, we'll see. The-

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
KING: Let me make one point. Al was talking about the speech that Condoleezza Rice was going to give on September-she does mention terrorism. Now, you look at Bill Clinton's final State of the Union, his farewell address from the White House, he mentioned-one word in each speech, in the most tangential, oblique way. And that was the president of the United States, who now says terrorism was the main issue-didn't mention it at all.
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
SHIELDS: Impressive, Peter-Peter King? I mean, you look at it-I mean, we're still 2,592,000 jobs lost. We've got 657,000 government jobs that have cut into that a little bit. But you think that the corner has been turned, that from here on it, it's uptown?

KING: It definitely has. All the economic numbers are going the right way. And besides the 308,000, there's also about 70,000 jobs in the previous two months that were re-estimated. So it's almost 400,000 more jobs than we thought were there, which is to me a positive sign. We can debate that three million. The fact is, it was a recession inherited from Clinton. The fact is, we had the September 11 attacks. We had two wars. All things considered, the economy's definitely going in the right direction, and it's due to two people, George W. Bush and Bob Novak for their tax cuts. This man has been leading the charge for years.

SHIELDS: You know, this is the last time that giant sucking sound will be heard on this stage.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
NOVAK: Bob wants-the figures don't lie, Bob.

KING: Also got 18 million under Ronald Reagan.

SHIELDS: I have a-I have a question for you, Peter. I mean, the average-serious question. The average job lost since George Bush became president paid $41,000 a year. The average job created has paid $34,800. That is a major loss in income for people.

KING: Also, the taxes are a lot lower, too, so it helps them there. But also, let's get back to the manufacturing. You know, in Bill Clinton's last month, we lost 82,000 manufacturing jobs. This is something that began before George Bush became president. It's something that's going to continue. It's going to be very hard to bring manufacturing jobs back to this country.

NOVAK: Yeah, but the--

(CROSSTALK)

KING: The economy is changing. That's the reality of it.

SHIELDS: Oh, I see. I see.

(CROSSTALK)

SHIELDS: OK, let's run on that. And then Ohio--

(CROSSTALK)

HUNT: It was Newt Gingrich added those jobs in the Clinton years.

CARLSON: Making the tax cuts permanent's going to bring back those jobs?

KING: It's going to bring back more jobs--

CARLSON: That's what the president says.

KING: It's going to bring high-tech--

(CROSSTALK)

NOVAK: If you didn't have a tax cut, we'd really be in trouble.

(CROSSTALK)

HUNT: Well, you wouldn't be as rich as you are now. That's for sure.

SHIELDS: Hey! All right, that's it.

CARLSON: How many jobs have you created?

SHIELDS: We're out of here. We're out of here, OK? Peter King, thanks for being with us.

KING: I'm out of here.

SHIELDS: OK.

(LAUGHTER)

SHIELDS: I hope you'll be back, if you make up-and God, you got an act of contrition you got to do.

(LAUGHTER)

SHIELDS: Coming up in the second half of THE CAPITAL GANG, a "Sidebar" story on liberal talk radio challenging Rush Limbaugh; "Beyond the Beltway" looks at a conservative challenge to Senator Arlen Specter in Pennsylvania in the Republican primary; and our "Outrage of the Week." That's all coming up after this break.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

OPEC To Cut Oil Production; Pat Toomey Challenges Incumbent Arlen Specter For PA Seat In Senate

GUESTS: Rep. Peter King, Pete DeCoursey

BYLINE: Mark Shields, Robert Novak, Al Hunt, Margaret Carlson

HIGHLIGHT:
In Fallujah, Iraq, four American security workers were killed in an ambush by machine gun fire and rocket-propelled grenades. As gasoline prices in the United States broke the $2 ceiling, the OPEC cartel meeting in Vienna affirmed its plans to limit the supply of oil. In the Pennsylvania Senate Republican primary on April 27, four term Senator Arlen Specter is being challenged by Congressman Pat Toomey.

April 3, 2004 Saturday

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

SHIELDS: Pete King, let me ask you this. The Marines are outside of Fallujah. There has to be a necessary military response, necessary military response will inevitably involve civilian casualties and Marine casualties. Does that-doesn't that start again a cycle of violence, I mean, the portraits of this further inflaming anti-American feeling? I mean, there's a sense that you don't know how to get out or really what to do.

KING: Well, there's bound to be some anti-American feeling, but there's going to be more if we do nothing. The fact is, we have to make the tough decision. We do have to go into Fallujah. I think the Marines will do it. It'll probably be done within the next several days.

But I also have to disagree with Margaret and Al to this extent. First of all, we can go back and debate what happened after the war, but all of the things that people said were going to happen, as far as refugees, as far as utilities, as far as these mass uprising-did not happen. It is confined to an area. I've been in Baghdad. I've been in Mosul. The fact is, there it is relatively under control. Fallujah has been a city which we stayed outside of, and this group made the mistake of going through the town. They were not supposed to. This was an unauthorized-they were supposed to go around the city. They went through it. It's terrible what happened. But I think we make a mistake if we say this thing is, you know, just collapsing. It's not.

Also, John Kerry-who is he saying we should bring in? I mean, the U.N. won't come in. The French won't come in. The Germans won't come it. So it's not like people are waiting to come in and we won't let them in. And as far as the June 30 turnover date, that was a date insisted upon by the Europeans. They said there won't be any hope of getting help unless we set a date.

Now, we're still going to have our troops there, but we are going to gradually be turning it over to a government. And you know, again, I don't know what the answer is, other than what we're doing now, which I think, in the context of history, will be looked upon as the right thing to have done.

SHIELDS: More of the same, Bob? Is that the answer?

NOVAK: Well, it's-there's no-there's no choice to it. You see, the problem is that we're-we're seven months from a-from an election. It seems like seven days from an election, not seven months. And-and there is just a tendency that whatever happens, you-the politicians are saying, Gee, how can I-how can I protect myself or how can I bring this to my advantage, when I think ordinary Americans out there are just outraged by this-by this-by this barbaric treatment, and the last thing they want is some kind of a bug-out or turning it over to the French.

HUNT: Well, we certainly can't...

(CROSSTALK)

HUNT: Well, we certainly can't bug out, but we have the-we have-that what Brahimi is doing over there now, Bob. Bob has this wonderful formulation. He says, basically, anybody who didn't read history wouldn't understand what was going to happen. Terrible things have happened. Obviously, Paul Wolfowitz and Don Rumsfeld didn't read the same history that Bob Novak did. The aforementioned General Zinni said it in February, not afterward, and this week said...

SHIELDS: He did.

HUNT: ...this week again said the fact that...

NOVAK: So what did...

(CROSSTALK)

HUNT: ...have a post-war plan is shocking. Bob, you have to stay. You can't cut and run.

NOVAK: All right.

HUNT: But what you want to do is basically say, Hey-but there's no accountability. There ought to be accountability from...

CARLSON: And by the way...

HUNT: ...the people who made this mistake.

(CROSSTALK)

NOVAK: ...politics, Al! You know that!

HUNT: That's not politics. That's called accountability.

(CROSSTALK)

KING: First of all, the war was won. Secondly, the fact is, there was no mass migration of refugees out of the country. There was not mass rebellion throughout the country. The fact is, 75, 80 percent of the country wants us to stay. It's 8 to 1 that people say life will be better in Iraq next year than it is now. They're optimistic about the future.

OPEC To Cut Oil Production; Pat Toomey Challenges Incumbent Arlen Specter For PA Seat In Senate

GUESTS: Rep. Peter King, Pete DeCoursey

BYLINE: Mark Shields, Robert Novak, Al Hunt, Margaret Carlson

HIGHLIGHT:
In Fallujah, Iraq, four American security workers were killed in an ambush by machine gun fire and rocket-propelled grenades. As gasoline prices in the United States broke the $2 ceiling, the OPEC cartel meeting in Vienna affirmed its plans to limit the supply of oil. In the Pennsylvania Senate Republican primary on April 27, four term Senator Arlen Specter is being challenged by Congressman Pat Toomey.

April 3, 2004 Saturday

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

SHIELDS: Pete King, let me ask you this. The Marines are outside of Fallujah. There has to be a necessary military response, necessary military response will inevitably involve civilian casualties and Marine casualties. Does that-doesn't that start again a cycle of violence, I mean, the portraits of this further inflaming anti-American feeling? I mean, there's a sense that you don't know how to get out or really what to do.

KING: Well, there's bound to be some anti-American feeling, but there's going to be more if we do nothing. The fact is, we have to make the tough decision. We do have to go into Fallujah. I think the Marines will do it. It'll probably be done within the next several days.

But I also have to disagree with Margaret and Al to this extent. First of all, we can go back and debate what happened after the war, but all of the things that people said were going to happen, as far as refugees, as far as utilities, as far as these mass uprising-did not happen. It is confined to an area. I've been in Baghdad. I've been in Mosul. The fact is, there it is relatively under control. Fallujah has been a city which we stayed outside of, and this group made the mistake of going through the town. They were not supposed to. This was an unauthorized-they were supposed to go around the city. They went through it. It's terrible what happened. But I think we make a mistake if we say this thing is, you know, just collapsing. It's not.

Also, John Kerry-who is he saying we should bring in? I mean, the U.N. won't come in. The French won't come in. The Germans won't come it. So it's not like people are waiting to come in and we won't let them in. And as far as the June 30 turnover date, that was a date insisted upon by the Europeans. They said there won't be any hope of getting help unless we set a date.

Now, we're still going to have our troops there, but we are going to gradually be turning it over to a government. And you know, again, I don't know what the answer is, other than what we're doing now, which I think, in the context of history, will be looked upon as the right thing to have done.

SHIELDS: More of the same, Bob? Is that the answer?

NOVAK: Well, it's-there's no-there's no choice to it. You see, the problem is that we're-we're seven months from a-from an election. It seems like seven days from an election, not seven months. And-and there is just a tendency that whatever happens, you-the politicians are saying, Gee, how can I-how can I protect myself or how can I bring this to my advantage, when I think ordinary Americans out there are just outraged by this-by this-by this barbaric treatment, and the last thing they want is some kind of a bug-out or turning it over to the French.

HUNT: Well, we certainly can't...

(CROSSTALK)

HUNT: Well, we certainly can't bug out, but we have the-we have-that what Brahimi is doing over there now, Bob. Bob has this wonderful formulation. He says, basically, anybody who didn't read history wouldn't understand what was going to happen. Terrible things have happened. Obviously, Paul Wolfowitz and Don Rumsfeld didn't read the same history that Bob Novak did. The aforementioned General Zinni said it in February, not afterward, and this week said...

SHIELDS: He did.

HUNT: ...this week again said the fact that...

NOVAK: So what did...

(CROSSTALK)

HUNT: ...have a post-war plan is shocking. Bob, you have to stay. You can't cut and run.

NOVAK: All right.

HUNT: But what you want to do is basically say, Hey-but there's no accountability. There ought to be accountability from...

CARLSON: And by the way...

HUNT: ...the people who made this mistake.

(CROSSTALK)

NOVAK: ...politics, Al! You know that!

HUNT: That's not politics. That's called accountability.

(CROSSTALK)

KING: First of all, the war was won. Secondly, the fact is, there was no mass migration of refugees out of the country. There was not mass rebellion throughout the country. The fact is, 75, 80 percent of the country wants us to stay. It's 8 to 1 that people say life will be better in Iraq next year than it is now. They're optimistic about the future.

So let's-let's not say--

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: --Republicans practically dragged Clinton--

HUNT: So why are people getting killed all the time?

CARLSON: --through the streets of Mogadishu after--

KING: Well, so did-I was in Congress then.

CARLSON: --after we were attacked-we were attacked there. And so that politics enters into this is not surprising.

SHIELDS: Last word, Margaret Carlson.

KING: I just hoped you would be better.

SHIELDS: Pete? Pete! Last word, Margaret Carlson.

Pete King and THE GANG we'll be back with the White House reversing course on Condoleezza Rice.

ANNOUNCER: Here's your CAPITAL GANG "Trivia Question of the Week." Peter King spent a summer working at Richard Nixon's law firm. Who did he work with? A, Rudy Giuliani; B, George Pataki; or C, Michael Bloomberg? We'll have the answer right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

KING: Probably too much. I felt that, first of all, she should not testify. I do believe in executive privilege. This is the first time ever you're going to have a national security adviser testifying about policy. I think it's something we're going to regret in the future, when it-there's going to be some future event we're going to say, This shouldn't happen.

However, I think they had no choice. I mean, the media gave Richard Clarke and his raging megalomania such a free ride and such a furor had built up, I think it was important that she come in. Condi Rice will do a great job of testifying. She will answer all the questions. I disagree with Margaret. There was absolutely no intelligence of passenger planes being hijacked. The head of Bill Clinton's counterterrorism in the State Department said after September 11, none of the information they had went toward that at all. There was talks of-of a Cessna with explosives. There was talk of a plane being hijacked for kidnapping purposes. Nothing ever was said about passenger planes being hijacked for the purpose of having a mass attack in the United States.

She'll be able to answer all the questions and I think really expose Dick Clarke, also.

SHIELDS: Al Hunt? Your own sense?

HUNT: Well, first of all, one huge myth is that George Bush hangs tough for principles. When it comes to political pressure, he's got a glass jaw. He caved on the 9/11 commission, caved on Homeland Security, and he caved on this. I think everybody last week said he was going to, and he did.

I think Dr. Rice will be a very articulate witness, but whether she'll be credible or not, Peter, I'm not sure. I think there are more contradictions than you suggest, including the fact she was giving a speech on 9/11, which excerpts say she barely mentions terrorism, and yet now they say that was a huge issue for them then.

I would just give one-I would make one just final point, Peter, and that is that one thing that really fascinated me this week was that-that we found out that they-that this administration wasn't turning over lots of papers from the Clinton administration until Bruce Lindsey, a Clinton counsel, said, you know, We want those turned over to the 9/11 commission. Now, there's one of two explanations. Either they really are great civil libertarians in this White House who have a-just a zealous regard for Bill Clinton's privacy, or they're trying to cover up some more stuff.

KING: Well, we'll see. The-

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
KING: Let me make one point. Al was talking about the speech that Condoleezza Rice was going to give on September-she does mention terrorism. Now, you look at Bill Clinton's final State of the Union, his farewell address from the White House, he mentioned-one word in each speech, in the most tangential, oblique way. And that was the president of the United States, who now says terrorism was the main issue-didn't mention it at all.
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
SHIELDS: Impressive, Peter-Peter King? I mean, you look at it-I mean, we're still 2,592,000 jobs lost. We've got 657,000 government jobs that have cut into that a little bit. But you think that the corner has been turned, that from here on it, it's uptown?

KING: It definitely has. All the economic numbers are going the right way. And besides the 308,000, there's also about 70,000 jobs in the previous two months that were re-estimated. So it's almost 400,000 more jobs than we thought were there, which is to me a positive sign. We can debate that three million. The fact is, it was a recession inherited from Clinton. The fact is, we had the September 11 attacks. We had two wars. All things considered, the economy's definitely going in the right direction, and it's due to two people, George W. Bush and Bob Novak for their tax cuts. This man has been leading the charge for years.

SHIELDS: You know, this is the last time that giant sucking sound will be heard on this stage.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
NOVAK: Bob wants-the figures don't lie, Bob.

KING: Also got 18 million under Ronald Reagan.

SHIELDS: I have a-I have a question for you, Peter. I mean, the average-serious question. The average job lost since George Bush became president paid $41,000 a year. The average job created has paid $34,800. That is a major loss in income for people.

KING: Also, the taxes are a lot lower, too, so it helps them there. But also, let's get back to the manufacturing. You know, in Bill Clinton's last month, we lost 82,000 manufacturing jobs. This is something that began before George Bush became president. It's something that's going to continue. It's going to be very hard to bring manufacturing jobs back to this country.

NOVAK: Yeah, but the--

(CROSSTALK)

KING: The economy is changing. That's the reality of it.

SHIELDS: Oh, I see. I see.

(CROSSTALK)

SHIELDS: OK, let's run on that. And then Ohio--

(CROSSTALK)

HUNT: It was Newt Gingrich added those jobs in the Clinton years.

CARLSON: Making the tax cuts permanent's going to bring back those jobs?

KING: It's going to bring back more jobs--

CARLSON: That's what the president says.

KING: It's going to bring high-tech--

(CROSSTALK)

NOVAK: If you didn't have a tax cut, we'd really be in trouble.

(CROSSTALK)

HUNT: Well, you wouldn't be as rich as you are now. That's for sure.

SHIELDS: Hey! All right, that's it.

CARLSON: How many jobs have you created?

SHIELDS: We're out of here. We're out of here, OK? Peter King, thanks for being with us.

KING: I'm out of here.

SHIELDS: OK.

(LAUGHTER)

SHIELDS: I hope you'll be back, if you make up-and God, you got an act of contrition you got to do.

(LAUGHTER)

SHIELDS: Coming up in the second half of THE CAPITAL GANG, a "Sidebar" story on liberal talk radio challenging Rush Limbaugh; "Beyond the Beltway" looks at a conservative challenge to Senator Arlen Specter in Pennsylvania in the Republican primary; and our "Outrage of the Week." That's all coming up after this break.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT