MSNBC Interview - Transcript
Interview
MSNBC Interview - Transcript
MSNBC INTERVIEW WITH SENATOR JOE LIEBERMAN (ID-CT); SENATOR OLYMPIA SNOWE (R-ME)
SUBJECT: ECONOMIC STIMULUS PACKAGE INTERVIEWER: ANDREA MITCHELL
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MS. MITCHELL: A procedural Senate vote is set for this evening at 5:30 Eastern on the slim down stimulus plan. We use the word slim down advisably. It would pave the way for tomorrow's final Senate vote to pass the bill. The biggest hang up between the Senate and House bills is the amount allocated for spending versus tax cuts.
Here are the key differences. The Senate spends about $100 billion more on tax cuts, while the House gives more to state and local governments.
Joining us now live from Capitol Hill, independent Senator Joe Lieberman, Republican Senator Olympia Snowe. Senator Lieberman, one of the main negotiators on the Senate compromise; Senator Snowe is one of three Republicans pledging her support.
Welcome to both. Senator Snowe, first of all, it must be pretty lonely up there. Do you think there will be any more Republicans joining in? Or do you think that you three will hold at least so that they actually can stop a filibuster when that votes takes place at 5:30 today?
SEN. SNOWE: Well, I don't think it's likely that there will be more Republicans, at least at this point. You know, obviously, there have been some deep and serious concerns about the stimulus package and what should be in this package. I happen to think it strikes the right balance and equilibrium between providing tax relief. It will create jobs and also to provide direct assistance to individuals who are adversely affected by this downturn, and of course, to the states to assist those and to assist the state economy.
So I think it's a process of moving forward. Could it be better? Certainly, and hopefully, that we can make even further changes throughout the conference as well.
MS. MITCHELL: Well, the president spoke to the education piece of it and indicated in Elkhart, Indiana that he would like to see that money move back in. Let me ask you both. Would there be a risk of losing votes in the Senate if that gets added back in in conference?
SEN. LIEBERMAN: Well, I worry that there would be, I mean, it's self-evident now that if Senator Kennedy is here for the vote, we've got 61 votes, which is a good number, but it's only one more than necessary to break a filibuster, and therefore, I think that our three Republican colleagues, Olympia, Susan Collins and Arlen Specter are really the heroes in this because they're making a stimulus possible and without it, I fear that our unemployment rate would continue to skyrocket and that our economy would continue to go down.
So we've got to act urgently. There's always room for negotiation in a conference, but this one can't bury too much, I think, that's just the reality of it.
SEN. SNOWE: I know, Andrea, that the president has said that, you know, stimulus is spending and I couldn't agree with him more, but also you have to remember the fact that not any spending is stimulus and we really have to look very carefully of what is in this package because the expectations are high and we have to make sure that every dollar we spend, we spent it appropriately and effectively and front load it and part of the problem that discretionary spending is that it was only 12 percent spend out this year and 49 percent over the next two years.
So that would not have been helpful in terms of job creation and jumpstarting the economy.
SEN. LIEBERMAN: That's a very important point that the Senate bill spends out 80 percent of our funds over the two years, next two years, the House bill about 64 percent.
I also want to make this point and I know some people are upset that some of the education money in the original bill is not in, but this is all new money, in other words, the states, the localities, are getting billions of dollars in education support in the Senate bill that we've agreed on that they never dreamed they would have a month ago. So this is a very strong stimulus package and it's critically urgent to everybody in our country that it gets passed this week.
MS. MITCHELL: Yeah, but to Senator Snowe's point about not having earmarks or wasteful spending, your colleague, Senator Coburn, has issued a list of what he says are non-stimulative, wasteful spending in the Nelson-Collins substitute, the compromise bill and he points to $2 billion earmark, what he calls an earmark for future gen near zero emissions power plant in Mattoon, Illinois, $39 billion slush fund for state fiscal stabilization bailout, $5.5 billion for making federal buildings green, including $448 million for the Department of Homeland Security headquarters, I mean, you get the drift. You don't know what's in here point by point anymore than I do, but isn't it easy for your colleagues to pick off these items and come back at you and make it uncomfortable for you at home with your constituents?
SEN. SNOWE: Thank you. You raised an important point, obviously. We should look at every provision and there shouldn't be any earmarks in this legislation. I would have preferred many of these things to be taken out, frankly, but then again we also have to evaluate which ones specifically would be geared towards job creation for now and also for the future. We want to make sure that the only thing that isn't temporary in this bill is job creation. We want to create permanent jobs and I told the president that I think transparency is important. We should have job creation numbers attached to each and every provision in this legislation and it should be on the Web sites, absolutely, and at the state level as well and how they're using their funds to make sure that the public is aware of how these dollars are being spent.
MS. MITCHELL: And finally, Senator Lieberman, I also want to ask you about John McCain, your pal. He started out on a high note, both Barack Obama and John McCain reaching out to each other, trying to work together, but he clearly decided that he could not live with this. He wanted half as much spending on the Senate side and he's now leading the opposition.
SEN. LIEBERMAN: Yeah. Well, it's an unusual position for us to be in, but we never agreed on everything and we're still good pals. I'd say if we put half this much into the stimulus, remember, this is a two year program. It's about $800 billion, but it's over two years, $400 billion a year. Most economists that we talked to, liberal and conservative, tell us that that's probably not even enough. If you split in half as John wants to do, I just don't think it will work to stop the slide of our economy and the increase in people being laid off across America.
So we have a good faith disagreement here. I hope, again, I can't say enough about Olympia Snowe and the two other Republicans who really deserve the Congressional Medal of Honor on this one. They've put national interests ahead of what most members of their party were doing, and as a result, we're going to get a stimulus bill that's going to help the American people hold their jobs, create new ones and get our economy moving again.
MS. MITCHELL: Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins and Arlen Specter and Joe Lieberman, standing up for something on behalf of this White House. It's going to be a tough road ahead. So thank you for joining us.
SEN. SNOWE: Thank you.
SEN. LIEBERMAN: Thank you.
MS. MITCHELL: Senator Snowe, did you have one last comment? Senator Snowe, I didn't mean to cut you off.
SEN. SNOWE: Not at all. Just one point, the president mentioned in a meeting that I had with him last week led to the point that Joe was raising about we're going to lose $2 trillion in consumer demand between this year and next year, and so that the package has to be right sized to reflect and accommodate the deterioration and the magnitude of the downturn, and Joe and I represent what politics should be all about and that's working across party lines to build a consensus. It isn't everything that we want, but we recognize that and it's a give and take in this legislative process and that's what this represents.
SEN. LIEBERMAN: Amen. Thank you.
MS. MITCHELL: All right. Thank you both very much. Appreciate it. I know it has been a long weekend there on Capitol Hill.
END.
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