MSNBC "Morning Joe" - Transcript

Interview

MSNBC "Morning Joe" - Transcript

MSNBC "MORNING JOE" INTERVIEW WITH SOUTH CAROLINA GOVERNOR MARK SANFORD (R) AND OHIO GOVERNOR TED STRICKLAND (D)

SUBJECT: BAILOUT OF AUTO MANUFACTURERS INTERVIEWERS: JOE SCARBOROUGH, MIKA BRZEZINSKI, ANDY STUART

Copyright ©2008 by Federal News Service, Inc., Ste. 500, 1000 Vermont Ave, Washington, DC 20005 USA. Federal News Service is a private firm not affiliated with the federal government. No portion of this transcript may be copied, sold or retransmitted without the written authority of Federal News Service, Inc. Copyright is not claimed as to any part of the original work prepared by a United States government officer or employee as a part of that person's official duties. For information on subscribing to the FNS Internet Service at www.fednews.com, please email Carina Nyberg at cnyberg@fednews.com or call 1-202-216-2706.

MS. BRZEZINSKI: Here with us now to talk about the --

MR. SCARBOROUGH: Mark Sanford, a good friend of mine, one of the most irascible, meanest politicians I've ever met in my life. (Laughter.) They love him!

MS. BRZEZINSKI: He's adorable!

MR. SCARBOROUGH: We're going to talk about the auto bailout. Mark Sanford, who's never met a spending bill he likes, God bless him.

And also a friend of mine from Congress, Democratic Ohio Governor Ted Strickland.

Thanks, guys, for being with us.

Mark, let me begin with you. I take it you're not for the Detroit bailout.

GOV. SANFORD: That's a very fair and safe bet. Yes, sir, I think, for a lot of different reasons.

Because one, we can't afford it. Two, we're talking about going out and borrowing a bunch more money to write these checks out of Washington, D.C. And more than anything, I think that we're at something of a tipping point on where we go next as the American civilization.

And I literally mean that, because this string of bailouts threatens the very market-based system that has created the wealth that this country's enjoyed as we instead move, seemingly, to a politically based economy wherein if you've got the right lobbyist in Washington or can make enough voice, you get the golden tap on the shoulder and checks coming out of Washington, D.C. headed in your direction.

MR. SCARBOROUGH: But Mark, what do you say to those people who suggest that if we allow Detroit to fail then a recession could easily become a depression?

GOV. SANFORD: I -- one, the presumption is that all economic stimulus is contingent on checks coming out of Washington, D.C. I don't believe that.

I think that if you look at the history of Chapter 11 and a lot of businesses here in the United States that have gone through it, they have actually gone on to do better because they've been able to make the tough choices that you can't make outside of a Chapter 11 scenario.

So the presumption there is that they will fail outside of Chapter 11. I think, and many other people think the reverse.

MS. BRZEZINSKI: Yeah, I'm not sure.

MR. SCARBOROUGH: Ted, what do you think?

GOV. STRICKLAND: Well, Joe, I respectfully take issue with my fellow governor's conclusions. I believe that we are in a national recession that could -- and God forbid-- but it could go into a deep depression if this industry fails.

Ohio and Michigan and most other states depend not only upon the auto manufacturers, but they depend upon the auto suppliers. And that supply network is scattered throughout our nation.

It's a very fragile network of industries, and they are on the edge. And if they were to collapse, we would see the meltdown of the major manufacturing backbone of our nation's economy. And I don't think we can allow that to happen.

MR. SCARBOROUGH: Governor Strickland, stay with us. Stay with you, Mark. Really quickly, though, let's go to some breaking news on weekly job -- (inaudible).

MS. BRZEZINSKI: Yeah, it's right off the wires here. The number of U.S. workers filing new claims for jobless benefits surging to a 26-year high last week. This is the Labor Department's newest numbers just out, as a deepening recession forces employers to cut back on hirings.

MR. SCARBOROUGH: Governor Strickland, let's go back and have you respond to what Mark told us a minute ago, that we risk actually -- we're at a tipping point. We risk actually transforming the type of economy we have, moving away from a free market economy to an economy based on state intervention.

Now, are you concerned about that?

GOV. STRICKLAND: Well, Joe, I think these are unusual circumstances that we're facing in our country, probably the most difficult that we've faced, perhaps, since the 1930s. And I believe the response that's necessary from our federal government is a unique response.

We cannot continue to do what we've done in this country for so long, and that's borrow and borrow and borrow and borrow and spend. I think we all understand that. I think the new president-elect understands that.

But we are facing circumstances that are very dangerous, I think. I believe those who are opposing this bailout really are playing with fire, because if this industry were to collapse, if the supply chain were to collapse, we're in trouble.

This is not a fight between the North and the South; it's not a fight between unionized auto manufacturers and non-unionized auto manufacturers.

Ohio has a big Honda operation. The Honda folks were in to see me just two days ago, expressing deep concern about the supply chain.

MR. SCARBOROUGH: Yeah, there is obviously, Andy, a supply chain.

(Cross talk.)

GOV. STRICKLAND: Because 80 percent of their supplies --

MR. SCARBOROUGH: Right. There is, Andy. Let's go to Andy Stuart for a second. Andy?

MR. STUART: Governor Sanford, I wanted to ask you about the auto manufacturing in your state.

You've got some overseas manufacturing there, and you talk about the supply chain as well.

Are you representing your constituency, do you think, by opposing a bailout?

GOV. SANFORD: Absolutely. The fact is we have two automotive industries in the United States of America -- what's happening in Detroit, which has been plagued and, in some cases, burdened by excessive costs, payrolls, union contracts -- go down the list. And unless they go Chapter 11, they can't get out of that untenable situation that they find themselves, with regard to cost structure -- and the rest of the automotive industry across America, which in many cases is doing much, much better. In some cases, even thriving.

So I think that, again, the larger question is when you look at a BMW, they're thriving because they've got a very different cost structure than the one you're looking at in Detroit. So unless you restructure that, you don't get to, again, a long-run, viably -- economically viable Big Three.

(Cross talk.)

And the other point that I would simply make is this --

MR. STUART: They make cars in your state, then, right?

Go ahead. I'm sorry, sir.

GOV. SANFORD: Yes, they do. What we're oftentimes challenged with, or threatened with, is this scare of financial Armageddon, that if you don't write us a check, we go into a depression.

And it's gotten to the point of just plain not believable, because we've been chasing that rabbit, if you will, for quite some time.

Back in the spring we were told by folks in Washington if we just cut around $150 billion of economic stimulus checks, then the economy would get better. Then we went to 2.3 trillion (dollars) in stimulus for the year. Then we crossed the $7 trillion stimulus number for this year alone.

And now what we're hearing is, look, if we don't get the 15 billion (dollars) -- 15 billion (dollars) would be -- well, 15 billion (dollars) would be 20 percent of one-fifth of 1 percent of the world GDP.

This is obviously a lot bigger than a national problem now, in terms of the economy. It's a global problem. The global economy is $67 trillion in size, and you're telling me one-twentieth of one-fifth of 1 percent is going to turn the national economy around? I don't think it's believable.

(Cross talk.)

MS. BRZEZINSKI: All right. Ted --

MR. SCARBOROUGH: Hey, Mark -- (laughter) -- hey, Mark, let me ask you a quick question, brother. Where did I go to school, undergrad? Alabama -- Roll Tide. I didn't follow you there, okay? Don't throw those numbers at me.

GOV. SANFORD: (Laughs.)

MS. BRZEZINSKI: Okay. All right. No, no, let's give Ted --

MR. SCARBOROUGH: Listen, we've got to go. Ted Strickland, we'll give you 15 seconds. Please, no fractions.

(Laughter.)

GOV. STRICKLAND: Well, serious times. Tough choices call for tough decisions, and I hope the Senate does the right thing and helps this industry so that we can prevent this depression from becoming a -- this recession from becoming a depression.

MR. SCARBOROUGH: All right.

GOV. STRICKLAND: That's my hope, and I continue to believe this is good for our country, certainly good for Ohio. And I think it'll be good for North Carolina and South Carolina and all the rest of the country as well.

MR. SCARBOROUGH: All right. Ted, thank you so much. Good to see you. Go Buckeyes!

MS. BRZEZINSKI: All right!

GOV. STRICKLAND: Absolutely!

MR. SCARBOROUGH: And good to see you, as always, Mark. Go Gamecocks. Stay mean, Mark. I'm counting on it, brother. Stay tough. (Laughter.)

END.

Source