CNN Crossfire - Transcript

CNN CROSSFIRE 16:30 May 6, 2004 Thursday
Copyright 2004 Cable News Network
All Rights Reserved

CNN

SHOW: CNN CROSSFIRE 16:30

May 6, 2004 Thursday

HEADLINE: Democrats Playing Politics With Iraq?

GUESTS: Eric Cantor, Robert Wexler

BYLINE: Wolf Blitzer, Robert Novak, Paul Begala

HIGHLIGHT:

More pictures surface of abused Iraqi prisoners, but are Democrats just playing politics to score points for the November election?

BODY:

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.

In the CROSSFIRE: More pictures surface of abused Iraqi prisoners.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

In the CROSSFIRE today, Congressman Robert Wexler, Democrat of Florida, Congressman Eric Cantor, Republican from Virginia.

(APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: Thank you both for coming. I know you're busy on the Hill. So we really appreciate you coming.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Bob just pointed out our president today apologized-actually, he apologized to the king of Jordan, which not at all in Iraq. But it was a nice gesture.

Here's the president today making his apology.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I told him I was sorry for the humiliation suffered by the Iraqi prisoners and the humiliation suffered by their families. I told him I was equally sorry that people who have been seeing those pictures didn't understand the true nature and heart of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: Now, I have to say, I think that's authentic anguish. I think it's wonderful the president did it.

I wish, though, he would follow Ronald Reagan's lead, who not simply said, I'm sorry, in fact never did, but he took responsibility. Even more important-that's important-but more important, he said, President Reagan said, "If there's to be responsibility for the Marine barracks bombings in Beirut, it doesn't lie with the military. It lies in this office and with this president."

Shouldn't President Bush be the man that Ronald Reagan was and take responsibility?

REP. ERIC CANTOR ®, VIRGINIA: Paul, I don't see where you think he's not.

BEGALA: Really?

CANTOR: The president has gone on Arab television, apologized to the Arab peoples for the conduct of these few soldiers who committed these abhorrent acts, as he said in his own words.

He met with the king of Jordan today and said that as well. This president is taking responsibility. We have got Rumsfeld and Myers going to the Hill tomorrow in full view of the public talking about what they knew, when they knew it, what's being done. These were acts that were done by a few soldiers. And the fact is, we have got hundreds of thousands -- 100,000-plus soldiers there who are doing their job, fighting for our freedom, defending our homeland, as well as trying to liberate the Iraqi people.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: I'm sorry to cut you off, but when did he take responsibility for that, though? I missed it. Because I've seen him apologize. I admire that and support it. But he hasn't said, I'm in charge here, the way that Ronald Reagan did.

CANTOR: Well, I mean, this president has been up front and direct as far as his leadership on foreign policy issues, on the mission in Iraq, and certainly has been playing a very visible role after this incident this week in the abuse of prisoners.

There's absolutely no indication whatsoever that President Bush is backing off of this. He's taking responsibility, standing by the secretary of defense. Look at the incredible record that Donald Rumsfeld has had since 9/11 in all that he has done in leading this country. There is no question that the president is in charge and taking a leadership role.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

BEGALA: It's a moot point, of course, Congressman Cantor, because it's abundantly clear that in six months he's going to be out of work anyway, so no point in worrying about that.

I want to ask you...

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: I want to show you, rather, a contrary example of presidential leadership. I'm deeply disappointed of this president passing the buck and not taking responsibility. Let me show you what the next president, John Kerry, how he showed taking responsibility today.

Here's John Kerry, what a contrast to President Bush.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Today, I have a message for the men and women of our armed forces. As commander in chief, I will honor your commitment and I will take responsibility for the bad as well as the good.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: He sounds an awful lot like Ronald Reagan to me, Eric Cantor, doesn't he?

CANTOR: It is unbelievable that you even give that statement credibility.

Look at what the Democrats on the House floor did today.

BEGALA: They're not running for president. I asked you about Senator Kerry.

CANTOR: They stood up-they stood up-they stood up on the floor, as well as in a press conference today, and said that this is an unwinnable war in Iraq. What kind of message

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: It is under George W. Bush. But the question I'm asking

(CROSSTALK)

CANTOR: What kind of message does that send to our troops? What kind of message does that send to our troops who are risking their lives day in and day out for all of us here in America? That's a terrible thing.

BEGALA: Are we winning the war?

CANTOR: Absolutely, we are winning.

BEGALA: Are we winning the war?

(CROSSTALK)

CANTOR: Absolutely. Absolutely, we are winning the war.

BEGALA: It's going great.

CANTOR: Listen. There are problems that may not have been anticipated. But there are-Iraqis are free. There's an interim Constitution in place. They have freedom of religious, freedom of expression, freedom of the press. The lights are on. The schools...

BEGALA: They're expressing it by blowing up our soldiers, who are the good guys over there, Congressman. That's not progress.

(CROSSTALK)

CANTOR: This is what's being portrayed. You look.

(CROSSTALK)

CANTOR: Kids are going to schools. They have got new textbooks. Of course, it's-of course, it's a better situation in Iraq.

WEXLER: It's a rosy picture. With all due respect to my friend, Mr. Cantor, the Republican leadership in Congress has abdicated all responsibility in terms of providing oversight to this war in Iraq. We haven't had one single critical debate since this war began.

(CROSSTALK)

CANTOR: We had the debate on the floor just an hour ago.

(CROSSTALK)

WEXLER: We owe it-we owe it-we owe it to our men and women to provide them with the kinds of material they need. We owe it to them to tell the truth.

CANTOR: We owe it to them be responsible. You have to be accountable for the words that you use.

(CROSSTALK)

WEXLER: Exactly right.

(CROSSTALK)

CANTOR: Let me tell you, the message that is going out to our troops is not a responsible one.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Time now for "Rapid Fire," where we ask questions a whole lot faster than President Bush can apologize for the abuse of Iraqi prisoners. Our guests, Republican Congressman Eric Cantor of Virginia, Democratic Congressman Robert Wexler of Florida.

NOVAK: Congressman Wexler, why do you stop with Rumsfeld? Why don't you ask for the resignation or the firing or the impeachment of Colin Powell, General Myers, Condoleezza Rice, the whole gang? Why don't you just get rid of all of them?

WEXLER: Well, I think it ought to be Secretary Rumsfeld and it ought to be General Myers. Those are the two people that have had responsibility for this debacle, that failed to show leadership. And it would show the world that we're serious about freedom and democracy in Iraq and it's just not words.

BEGALA: Congressman Cantor, in the last segment, you said-and I quote-you have to be accountable for the words you use. Rush Limbaugh says what happened over there was no different than fraternity initiation. He said these guys were just blowing off some steam, having a good time. Do you endorse or condemn Rush Limbaugh's words?

CANTOR: I do not take lightly the incidents that occurred in Iraq. No question the individuals responsible need to be held accountable. The president said as much.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Do you condemn Limbaugh?

CANTOR: I do not necessarily agree with what was said, no.

NOVAK: Congressman Wexler

(CROSSTALK)

WEXLER: I condemn Limbaugh.

(LAUGHTER)

NOVAK: Senator-Senator-Senator Joe Lieberman of Kentucky says there's not evidence to convict Secretary Rumsfeld of the kind of wrongdoing that would lead somebody to fire him. Is Joe Lieberman just too fair and even-handed?

WEXLER: What has occurred with Secretary Rumsfeld, this is the last straw. This is the same secretary that told Pentagon officials we're going to keep the troops in Pentagon-in Iraq a much lower amount. He told us the wrong amount of money that it's going to cost to do this. His deputy, Wolfowitz...

NOVAK: So, clearly, he doesn't know what he's talking about?

WEXLER: His deputy, Wolfowitz, said, oh, the occupation and the rebuilding will pay for themselves. This is a series of mistakes.

(BELL RINGING)

BEGALA: One quick question. Should there be an independent investigation or do you trust the Pentagon to investigate the Pentagon?

CANTOR: The Pentagon and Secretary Rumsfeld will be perfectly capable of conducting the investigation. And we'll get to the bottom...

BEGALA: Oh, so the Pentagon and Secretary Rumsfeld.

CANTOR: And we'll get to the bottom of it. And the people who are already-there are some who have already convicted in a court. And they will continue to be held accountable. There's no question. There's no question that they can manage this investigation.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Congressman Eric Cantor of Virginia, thank you very much. Congressman Robert Wexler of Florida, thank you very much for a fun debate.

END