ABC "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" Interview - Transcript

Interview

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Hello, again. Britney Spears, Paris Hilton, the rapper Ludacris; they were all in the mix of what turned out to be the most contentious week of this presidential campaign. Things were also getting pretty heated in the Capitol as Congress adjourned for August without acting against the high oil and gas prices angering so many Americans.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (From videotape.) I move that the House do now -- (unintelligible).

UNIDENITIFIED SPEAKER: (From videotape.) (Inaudible.)

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (From videotape.) I ask for a recorded vote.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Our headliner this morning, Nancy Pelosi. The House speaker has also written a new book, "Know Your Power -- A Message to America's Daughters." And she got some praise this week from an unlikely source. John McCain called her a great American success story.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ): (From videotape.) We talk a lot about Hillary Clinton and her inspiration to Americans. Speaker Pelosi has been an inspiration as well. But I do believe that she should allow votes on things. In other words, I respect her position, but to just say, we're not going to vote on it, then that's not the process as I think Americans want.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: And Speaker Pelosi joins us now. Good morning.

REP. PELOSI (D-CA): Good morning.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Care to return Senator McCain compliment?

REP. PELOSI: I've enjoyed working with Senator McCain as he serves in the United States Senate, and I look forward to continuing to do that.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He says when he's president, he can work with you the way that Ronald Reagan worked with Tip O'Neill.

REP. PELOSI: Well, I look forward to working with Barack Obama, but stand ready to work with any president of the United States.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me get to the substantive point he was raising there. You've been getting a lot of heat for not allowing a vote, an up or -- straight up-or-down vote on expanding drilling off the coasts of the United States. Why won't you permit a straight up- or-down vote?

REP. PELOSI: What we have presented are options that would really make a difference at the pump. Free our oil, Mr. President. We're sitting on 700 million barrels of oil. That would have an immediate effect in 10 days. What our colleagues are talking about is something that won't have an effect for 10 years and it will be two cents at the time. If they want to present something as part of an energy package, we're talking about something. But to single-shoot on something that won't work, and mislead the American people as to thinking it's going to reduce the price at the pump -- I'm just not going to be a party to it.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Except that it's not just Republicans calling for this. Members of your own caucus say we must have a vote. Congressman Jason Altmire -- let me show our viewers right now -- is saying there's going to be a vote. Here he says exactly, "there's going to be a vote. September 30th will not come and go without a vote on opening the outer continental shelf. The message has been delivered. The issue can't be ignored any longer." He says he speaks for a lot of Democrats. He's talked to the leadership, and a vote must happen.

REP. PELOSI: Well, maybe it will as it's part of a larger energy package. But let's step back, call a halt, and put this in perspective. What we have now is a failed energy policy by the Bush- Cheney, two oilmen in the White House -- $4-a-gallon gasoline at the pump. And what they're saying is, let's have more of the same. Let's have more of big oil making record profits, historic profits -- you see the quarterly reports that just came out -- who want to be subsidized -- they don't really want to compete -- and let them use those subsidies to drill in protected areas.

Instead, we're saying, free the oil. Use it, don't lose it. There are 68 million acres in lower 48 and 10 or 20 million more acres in Alaska where they're permitted, where they can drill anytime. This is a diversionary tactic from a failed energy policy.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But if you feel you have the better arguments, why not give a straight up-or-down vote for drilling?

REP. PELOSI: Because the misrepresentation is being made that this is going to reduce the price at the pump. This is a, again, a decoy. It's not a solution.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, but if you're right, why not let it be debated out and have the vote?

REP. PELOSI: We have a debate every single day on this subject. What you saw in the Congress this week was the war dance of the hand maidens of the oil companies. That's what you saw on the Republican side of the aisle. Democrats and Republicans are not right down party lines on this issue. There are regional concerns as well as some people concerned about what this means back home for them. But we have a planet to save. We have an economy to grow. And we can do that if we keep our balance in all of this, and not just say, but for drilling in unprotected -- in these protected areas offshore, we would have lower gas prices.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: So what exactly are you trying to say? You say you might allow a vote as part of a comprehensive package, but you won't allow a straight up-or-down vote on drilling oil?

REP. PELOSI: Well, I'm not going to -- we have put on the floor free our oil; strong bipartisan support for that. Use it don't lose it; strong bipartisan support for that. End undo speculation; strong bipartisan support for that. We've talked about these things. Invest in renewable energy resources so that we can increase the supply of energy for our country; strong bipartisan support for that. Over and over again --

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: And yet, you've brought those measures to the floor in a way under the suspension of the rules so that it couldn't be amended with a drilling proposal.

REP. PELOSI: Well, we built consensus and have a strong bipartisan -- this is what's going to make a difference to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, to stop our dependence on fossil fuels in our own country, to increase the supply of energy into -- and immediately, and immediately to reduce the price at the pump to protect the consumer.

So this is a policy matter. This is very serious policy matter.

It's not to use a tactic of -- one tactic in order to undermine a comprehensive energy package, to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, which is a national security issue, to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels in our country. Now, we should be talking about natural gas. That's cheaper, better for the environment.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But why not allow votes on all that? When you came in as speaker, you promised in your commitment book, "A New Direction for America" -- let me show our viewers -- you said that bills should generally come to the floor under a procedure that allows open, full, and fair debate consisting of a full amendment process that grants the minority the right to offer its alternatives. If they want to offer a drilling proposal, why can't they have a vote?

REP. PELOSI: They'll have to use their imagination as to how they can get a vote and they may get a vote. But I'm trying to -- we have serious policy issues in our country. The president of the United States has presented this -- but for this our economy would be booming, but for this, gas would cheaper at the pump. It's simply no true. And even the president himself in his statement yesterday and before then has said, there is no quick fix for this by drilling.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: And Senator Obama has agreed with you. He says, listen, this is not the answer. Drilling is not the answer. But he said over the weekend that he might be willing to sign on to drilling as part of a comprehensive proposal.

REP. PELOSI: What Senator Obama said is what we want a president to say. Let's look at all of the options. Let's compare them. And let's see what really does increase our supply, protect our environment, save our economy, protect the consumer, instead of a single-shot thing that does none of the above. While we give subsidies to big oil to drill in environmentally protected areas and instead of letting them --

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: So just -- I want to move on to other issues. Just to be clear, you're saying you will not allow a single up-or-down vote on drilling, but you will allow a vote on a package that includes drilling?

REP. PELOSI: No. What I'm saying to you is, as far as I am concerned, unless there is something that -- you never say never to anything. People have their parliamentary options available to them. But from my standpoint, my flagship issue as speaker of the House and of this 110th Congress has been to reduce our dependence on foreign oil and to save -- reverse global warming. I'm not giving a gavel away to a tactic that will do neither of those things, that supports the big oil at the cost -- at the expense of the consumer.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: So you will not permit a vote. You may get beat, but you're not going to permit a vote on your own.

REP. PELOSI: Well, again, we take this one step at a time, but while we're spending all of this time on a parliamentary tactic when nothing less is at stake than the planet, the air we breathe, our children breathe, we have --

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But that's what I don't understand. If you could get votes on everything else you care about, which you say there is strong bipartisan support, why not allow a vote on the drilling as well?

REP. PELOSI: Because the president will not allow any of these other things to come forward. Why are we not saying to the president, why don't you release oil from the SPRO? In 10 days, we can have the cost of -- the price at the pump go down? Why are you opposed to ending undo speculation in the oil markets? Why do you not insist that people who have leases on our land with permits ready to go use those?

The oil companies don't want competition. And what we would do by saying, go ahead, give them their subsidies, allow them to drill in areas that are protected now instead of where they're allowed to drill is to diminish all of the opportunity that we have for an electricity standard for our country where we set out standards that makes the competition for renewable energy resources better; which says to the private sector, invest here, because there is a standard that they have to honor. If you just say, it's drill, drill, drill, drill, drill, what is the -- and we're going to subsidize it, we're going to subsidize big oil -- what is the motivation for the private sector to come in and say, we're going to support these renewable energy resources --

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me move on to another --

REP. PELOSI: -- wind, solar, biofuels, plug-in cars, natural gas, and other alternatives?

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me move on to another issue. The campaign dialogue this week taken over by Britney Spears and Paris Hilton. Diane Sawyer sat down with John McCain yesterday and asked him if he would continue with ads in this vein. Take a look.

SEN. MCCAIN: (From videotape.) I kind of enjoy them. You've got to have a sense of humor in this. You know what, a few days ago Senator Obama said -- he challenged me to a duel. I'm for the light sabers as weapons of choice.

DIANE SAWYER: (From videotape.) But in general, the ads, the Paris Hilton, George Clooney ads are over?

SEN. MCCAIN: (From videotape.) Well, I don't -- we'll continue to have humor in our campaign.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It sounds like the answer to that is no. And we saw in the Gallup poll at the end of this week that according to the Gallup poll, at least, the race is tied. Are you worried that this approach may be working?

REP. PELOSI: I'm worried that this approach is not worthy of the office of president that Senator McCain and Senator Obama are running for. For Senator McCain to demean the race for the presidency in this way is, I think, not humorous. I think it's silly. But I will say this, let's take it back to what the American people -- who's going to create good paying jobs in our country? Who's going to have a sane energy policy that looks out for the consumer and the environment? Who's going to educate our children? Who's going to provide access to quality healthcare? That's the debate we should be having. Who's going to protect the American people in a way that does not send us to a war without end? That's the debate the American people -- they're not interested in this silliness.

It's beneath the dignity of the office of president to have ads like that. But you know what? It's a free world. People can do what they want, and people can make judgments about it. But I would hope that that would not be a symbol of what the campaign will look like from the McCain side because people need real answers about good paying jobs in America -- jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs. It's a four-letter word.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me ask you a question about the vice presidency. Senator Obama seems to be closing in on a pick and "Newsweek" reported today that you've been pushing one of your colleagues in the House -- Congressman Chet Edwards of Texas. Now, not a lot of Americans know much about Chet Edwards. Why would he be a good vice president?

REP. PELOSI: First of all, I support anyone that Senator Obama is comfortable with for vice president. I didn't want to see a discussion of candidates for vice president without showing the talent of the House of Representatives. Chet Edwards, for years, our colleagues have said to him, why don't you run for president? He is an extraordinarily talented person. He is the champion for veterans in the Congress. He has -- under his leadership we have passed, included just on Friday, the biggest increase in funding for veterans' health benefits and other benefits in the history of our country. He's a master of the needs of our military and their families. He understands the issues of nonproliferation. He has been a champion in the Appropriations Committee and the Congress. He's from South Texas. He represents -- or he's from Crawford, Texas -- represents President Bush in the Congress.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: President Bush's congressman.

REP. PELOSI: He is as talented, as principled, as -- (unintelligible) -- person.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you think he's got a shot?

REP. PELOSI: Well, I think -- well, I would certainly hope so. But you know what? Senator Dodd, Senator Biden, Senator Hillary Clinton -- there is such a great array of people from whom Senator Obama can choose, so anyone of them, I'm fine with. I just wanted people to be aware of the extraordinary credentials of Chet Edwards, and I hope he would be the nominee.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Finally, we're just about out of time. But I want to ask you, in your book "Know Your Power," you also write about your long history speaking out against human rights abuses in China. The Olympics are coming up this week. John McCain told the "Washington Post" yesterday that President Bush should avoid anything confrontational as he goes to China. What do you make of that advice?

REP. PELOSI: Well, I would hope as Congress voted overwhelmingly, unanimously, except for one vote to say to the president, when you go to China, make sure that your presence at the opening ceremony is not misconceived as being approval of China's policies in terms of human rights in China and Tibet, and that that is the view of the American people, and that he would speak out on that subject. He's the president of the United States. His presence at the opening ceremony gives him tremendous leverage to make the point -- I make a distinction between what Senator McCain is saying, don't confront the government, but I say the president should support the Chinese people.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Madame Speaker, thank you very much.

REP. PELOSI: Thank you. My pleasure.

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