NBC "Nightly News" - Transcript

Interview

NBC "Nightly News" - Transcript

MR. WILLIAMS: Are you the presumptive nominee of the Democratic Party?

SEN. OBAMA: Not yet. I will be if Senator Clinton decides not to go on or if we complete these six contests and we are ahead, as we are now. But nothing is certain. I don't want to take it for granted. Senator Clinton has been written off before and came back, and she's a formidable candidate.

So obviously we feel good about the results on Tuesday. It strengthens our position. And I'm confident that we can finish these last few contests and be in a continuing strong position. But it's not yet settled.

MR. WILLIAMS: Have you had any discussions about declaring that victory on the 20th, after Kentucky and Oregon are decided?

SEN. OBAMA: That will be an important day. If at that point we have the majority of pledged delegates, which is possible, then I think we can make a pretty strong claim that we've got the most runs and it's the ninth inning and we've won.

But I think it's also important for us to, if we win, do so in a way that brings the party together. And one of the obvious big concerns that all of us have is making sure that we focus our attention on the Republicans in the fall and we're in a strong position to do that.

So, you know, I want to let this play out. Senator Clinton is going to continue to campaign. And my hope is that when everything's over, all sides feel as if democracy has worked, the process has worked, and now it's time to turn attention to the issues that matter to the American people.

MR. WILLIAMS: As strange as this whole election season has been, this is a strange period right now. How do you view Senator Clinton? As we sit here, she's campaigning in three states, still every inch the competitor she was a week ago.

SEN. OBAMA: Look, as I said, she's a formidable candidate. And we're going to be out there campaigning as well. I'll be flying tonight to Oregon. And she's understandably, I think, eager to get on to the next couple of contests. She's heavily favored in West Virginia. She's heavily favored in Kentucky. And so over the next six contests, I think she's favored in at least three of them, and I may be slightly favored in three of them. So -- and those folks all want a chance to vote and to be heard.

So I think the fact that she's campaigning is understandable. And I'm going to be doing the same thing. I'm going to be delivering the same message that has got us this far, which is that we have to have different policies to provide health care to people, that we've got to make college more affordable, we've got to reinvest in infrastructure and clean energy to create jobs. We've got to have a tax code that's fair. We've got to end the war in Iraq.

But to do all that, we've also got to change how Washington works. That's been our message when I announced this campaign. That was my message this past Tuesday night after the victory of North Carolina and the virtual tie in Indiana. And that's going to be my message all the way through until we secure this nomination and can start focusing on the general election.

MR. WILLIAMS: Of course, millions of Americans woke up this morning with one concern -- the price of what they're going to pay for gas to commute to work. How do you bring it down?

SEN. OBAMA: Well, this has obviously been a major debate between myself and Senator Clinton and John McCain. John McCain and then Senator Clinton both proposed a gas tax holiday. And it was my view that this was simply designed to get politicians through the next election as opposed to solve problems. And ironically, President Bill Clinton back in 2000 said the same thing.

There's no assurance that whatever reductions in the gas tax will actually be passed on to consumers, because the oil companies can raise prices to sop up whatever savings might be there. And it could drain money from the highway trust fund, which we use to rebuild our roads and our bridges.

But what I've said is, in the short term, people really do need relief. I mean, I've met people --

MR. WILLIAMS: Right now.

SEN. OBAMA: Yeah. I meet people who can't go on job searches. They lost their job; can't fill up the tank to go apply for a job. So we've got to act now. I think the best way to act would be to accelerate a second phase of the stimulus package, which I have proposed if there were three consecutive months of declining employment, that it's important for us to go ahead and get another check in the mail to people to immediately help them absorb these rising costs, not only in energy but also food, also in medical care. And that would get folks at least through this year. I want to pass a permanent tax cut of $1,000 per family per year so that they can absorb further those costs.

And finally, but most importantly, we've got to invest in alternative energy and raise fuel efficiency standards on cars. And this is a bit of truth-telling that has to be at the heart of where we go in the coming years. We're not going to be able to bring down gas prices unless we start having an energy policy that is smarter and more efficient.

And this is something that I've been committed to for years. It's something that I've made a centerpiece of our campaign. We're not going to drill our way out of this problem. And so, even as I'm providing short-term relief to people, I want to make sure that 20 years from now our kids aren't looking back and saying, "Why is it that, after all we knew at that point, knowing that supplies of oil were going to be limited, knowing that China and India are going to be consuming more and more oil, why is it that we kept on sending a billion dollars to other nations, including hostile nations, and weakening our position and our economy?"

Now is the time for us to deal with this problem, and that's one of the reasons why I often refer to this moment as one that we have to seize. Otherwise we're going to put ourselves in a bad competitive footing for a long time.

MR. WILLIAMS: You mentioned the fight between you and Senator Clinton over the gas tax. I know you've looked at the numbers. And one thing is so clear from especially this last round of primaries. There are Obama voters in the Democratic Party and there are Clinton voters. And an astoundingly high number of those Clinton voters, when asked, would not vote for you if given the choice. Many of them said Senator McCain instead.

SEN. OBAMA: Right. But --

MR. WILLIAMS: And so how do you, as perhaps the nominee, bridge that gap?

SEN. OBAMA: Well, Brian, first of all, if you take these polls after any hard-fought contest like this, you're going to see a certain percentage. There were McCain voters who said they would not vote for George Bush back in 2000, and the overwhelming majority of them ultimately did. So there are always some bruised feelings after a contest like this.

Now, that doesn't mean, though, that I won't have a job in front of me if I end up being the nominee. There's no doubt that there are a lot of people who still don't know me well. We've made mistakes on occasion in our campaign.

I think it's important for us to systematically reach out and describe for people, with as much specificity as possible, what exactly an Obama presidency would mean in making their lives better, because ultimately this campaign is not about me. It's not about Hillary Clinton. It's not about John McCain. It's about the American people -- their hopes, their dreams, their struggles.

And if I can say to people, "Look, I might not have been your first choice, but here is how I'm going to allow you to send your kids to college, here's how I'm going to protect your pension, here's how I'm going to expand health care so you don't have to lose sleep at night trying to figure out whether or not you can afford to get sick," then I think people will respond; and it won't just be Democrats. It won't just be Clinton voters who will respond.

I think there are a lot of independents out there and there are a lot of disaffected Republicans who are also interested in seeing this country move in a new direction. We have the possibility, in this election, to remake the electoral map. That's something I've believed from the start of this campaign. But, you know, it's going to be a challenge and it's something that (I need ?) to start working on.

MR. WILLIAMS: Politics can be so personal. On a one-to-one basis, can you make those people love you, or at least vote for you? What part of who you are are they not getting, are they missing when you look yourself in the mirror?

SEN. OBAMA: I mean, you know, I think that in a contest like this, people get caricatured. And that will happen in the general election as well. But keep in mind that these are the same folks who oftentimes cheered me on just three or four years ago at the Democratic National Convention when I spoke and I talked about the need for unity and bringing the country together. I'm the same person now as I was then.

I think, you know, that's why I don't put too much credence to these poll numbers. What I do believe is that the Democratic Party has to lay out a coherent, clear vision of how we're going to make the lives of ordinary Americans better, that it's not enough just to run against George Bush, because there's a lot of cynicism and skepticism out there about our ability to bring about real change in America.

And so we've got to say, "Look, this $1,000 tax cut that I'm giving you, which we have paid for by closing tax havens and loopholes, this is going to help you manage your budget so that you're not in debt, that we are going to make sure that health care is available for you. And you won't have to use the health care plan that we're setting up, but it gives you an option. And we'll lower your premiums if you stay with the one that your employer offers."

Those kinds of specific, concrete goals, I think, combined with a sense that our best days are still ahead of us, that this is a campaign about the future and not the past, that's something that I think will appeal to a broad cross-section of Americans.

MR. WILLIAMS: You mentioned a moment ago you've made mistakes in this campaign. Is one of them your handling of the Wright stuff, the Reverend Wright material? You presented to a lot of people kind of the style of a loner. It was allowed to come out there -- given the news cycle these days, it was out there as cable wallpaper for several days.

SEN. OBAMA: It was more than several days; maybe several weeks.

MR. WILLIAMS: But you didn't engage. Did you think there was a valor in (letting ?) it out and taking the hit initially? What was the strategy?

SEN. OBAMA: Well, you know, I don't want to revisit this over and over again. Look, this was a difficult situation. I have a great loyalty to a wonderful church. Reverend Wright helped build that church. It is a pillar of the community in Chicago.

He said some things that I thought were wrong and deeply offensive. I tried to provide a context for it in that speech in Philadelphia that I gave on race. He, rather than recognize maybe that he had gone too far, chose to amplify it. And I had to break a relationship in a very public way.

I don't regret how it was handled. I don't think there was any great way of handling it. You know, when you had somebody who you've known who behaves in a way that doesn't reflect your values, then it's never easy. But one of the things that I've seen is that the people in North Carolina and the people of Indiana, and I think people around the country, do not ascribe those offensive statements to me, and I think are interested is in moving forward and figuring out "How's a President Obama going to allow me to achieve my American dream?"

And whenever we're talking about that, I think not only are the American people benefiting -- that's what they should expect from their presidential candidates -- but I also think we will do well politically if the focus is on the American people.

MR. WILLIAMS: About explaining who you are to the American voters, I work with a fellow who was formerly in Congress, Joe Scarborough, who now, I think, is legally known as "Morning Joe," who said the following, and I found it so interesting. He said this on the air about you the other night.

"There's nothing wrong with Barack Obama saying, 'Okay, let me get this straight. I'm an African-American who was raised by a single mom. I had to go all across the globe. I came back here. Despite my background, I was the editor of the Harvard Law Review. And guess what: I'm proud of that. My father wasn't editor of the Harvard Law Review. He wasn't a senator. My spouse wasn't president of the United States.'" Joe asks, "Why can't you just say that?"

SEN. OBAMA: Well, you know, if Joe's looking for a job as a political consultant, I'm happy to interview him. (Laughs.)

MR. WILLIAMS: He's a Republican.

SEN. OBAMA: I take advice from Republicans, not just Democrats. But I do not benefit from having been in the national spotlight for 20 years. Now, that's also an advantage, right? I don't have as much baggage. But it means that people are still getting a sense of me. And despite all the wall-to-wall coverage that I've received, this contest has received, it takes a long time for people to get a feel for a candidate.

And so I am vulnerable to potential caricatures, you know. And there were some self-inflicted wounds. The statement I made about Pennsylvania voters and small towns, I think, was an example of feeding a stereotype that was unfortunate. And I kick myself for that, because that wasn't in any way what I intended, but it came out wrong.

But the fact of the matter is, as Joe said and as you know, I was raised by small-town folks from Kansas with Midwestern values of honesty and hard work and responsibility. And so this notion somehow that I'm some sprout-eating, Volvo-driving person when, you know, of all the candidates remaining in this race, I probably came from the toughest circumstances -- not overly tough; I don't want to overstate it, but some tough circumstances, without a father in the house, and raised by people who come straight out of central casting of small Midwestern towns, I think just doesn't match up with who I am.

And it certainly doesn't match up with who Michelle is, somebody whose parents never went to college and whose dad was working as a shift worker and was able to raise a family despite some of those hardships and the discrimination that did exist in Chicago when they were coming up.

So what I've tried to explain to people is the reason I do this, the reason I do what I do, the reason Michelle tolerates me being in politics, is because we both understand how lucky we've been to have grown up in this country and how, as we were raised, there were ladders of opportunity that would allow us to achieve what we've achieved.

And the question is, are those same ladders of opportunity available for the next generation? Are they available for the child of a guy who's been laid off in Anderson, Indiana? Are they available for the child of a single mom in Scranton who's trying to figure out how to go to school and work and raise her kids at the same time?

And my sense is that we have not been creating the kind of economy and the kind of government that is ensuring that future for others. If I can communicate that during the course of this election, the remainder of the primary and, should I be lucky enough to get there, in the general, then I think the American people will respond, because ultimately that's what binds us together as a people. That's at the essence of our patriotism, this belief that if you try, you can make it in this country, and that everybody has a chance and that we're constantly building a better future for the next generation.

MR. WILLIAMS: From the big picture to the seemingly inconsequential, the small picture, the visual cues, ridiculous topics, but they're part of the game these days. You once told me in a conversation that you've tried it both ways, and because you're running for the highest office in the land, you've decided you're going to throw a tie on. In most situations you're going to wear a tie. You're going to dress the way your parents raised you.

And then you combine that with bowling. Due respect, Senator, I'm not guessing you've had a lot of bowling experience.

SEN. OBAMA: (Laughs.)

MR. WILLIAMS: But you end up with people talking about your bowling score, gutter balls, wearing a tie, wearing a tie with farmers.

And how have you dealt with that? Is there an operating theory that guides your life these days?

SEN. OBAMA: You know, my theory is not to overthink it, because I think the American people are smarter than that. The bowling is a wonderful example, right? You go to a bowling alley because you want to go meet with a bunch of folks. And folks are lined up and they're having a great time and we're talking and kids are -- I'm signing autographs.

And then some woman says, "Hey, why don't you bowl a couple of frames?" And I say, "Sure," although I haven't bowled in 25 years. And I'm out there and I'm having a great time, you know. And suddenly this becomes some big sort of signifier of whether or not I'm in tune with blue-collar culture.

Well, look, if I had been really serious about protecting my political image, I would have gone into some lane somewhere secretly, practiced for a day, emerged with a respectable 100 or 115 or something --

MR. WILLIAMS: Interesting.

SEN. OBAMA: -- and that wouldn't in any way speak to whether or not I was going to be fighting for those people in that bowling alley. And, in fact, the people in the bowling alley know it has nothing to do with whether I'm going to be fighting for them -- with them or not.

And one of the things that's been really fun is watching, you know, multi-millionaire pundits leaving their Georgetown salons suggesting that somehow I'm not in touch with the common man. (Laughs.) And I want to invite them over to my neighborhood or my barber shop and give them a sense of what ordinary people think about all this stuff. People are not as silly on this stuff as I think the newscasts make out.

MR. WILLIAMS: Are you going to keep wearing a tie because you believe in it?

SEN. OBAMA: Well, keep in mind, at the beginning of this campaign I didn't wear a tie.

MR. WILLIAMS: Right.

SEN. OBAMA: Sometimes I wear a tie. Sometimes I don't. Sometimes I wear a flag pin. Sometimes I don't. Sometimes I like a burger and a beer. Sometimes a glass of wine and a steak is good. But this doesn't have much to do with how I'm going to lead the country. What does have to do with leading the country is my commitment to make sure that everybody has the same chances that somebody gave me.

The president of the United States is not just thinking about how to get re-elected, not just thinking about his or her poll numbers, but is going to be thinking about how the lives of the American people are going to be a little bit better today than they were yesterday, and a little bit better the day after that. And that's what keeps me going through what's been a challenging contest.

MR. WILLIAMS: Last time we were together, I handed you a copy of Newsweek, the first time you held it in your hands with you on the cover. Have you yet held this in your hand? (Holds up copy of Time Magazine with Obama on the cover.)

SEN. OBAMA: No, and I don't want to, because the last time it was in New Hampshire and I ended up losing. So I'm not sure whether it's the magazine or you, Brian, that's the jinx, but I'm not taking any chances.

MR. WILLIAMS: Last time you looked at it and you thought instantly of your mom, as most of us would.

SEN. OBAMA: Yeah.

MR. WILLIAMS: What does this do for you?

SEN. OBAMA: Well, she'd like that picture. She always encouraged me to smile more. And --

MR. WILLIAMS: What's the asterisk stand for to you? The magazine has its own idea for what the asterisk stands for.

SEN. OBAMA: Well, I think the asterisk is a signifier that this is not done. But I think my mom would be proud of me. I think she'd feel like, you know, that I have stuck true to the values she taught me. Now, she might also say, "Don't get too full of yourself. Go out there and do some more work." She usually gave me sound advice. And during the course of this campaign there's been more than once that I've referred back to that good advice to keep me steady.

MR. WILLIAMS: Whether or not you become the presumptive nominee of the party, have there been internal conversations or any outreach, any contact at all with the Clinton camp, about a ticket that would involve Senator Clinton?

SEN. OBAMA: You know, we have not had those conversations, because I respect what she has said publicly, that she's continuing this campaign.

MR. WILLIAMS: Is it under consideration?

SEN. OBAMA: Brian, what I've said is I want to respect her and her desire to continue in these coming contests. And as soon as I know that I'm the nominee, then I'm going to start making overtures certainly to her as well as everybody else to figure out how we're going to bring this party together.

MR. WILLIAMS: Will she meet the criteria of a Barack Obama running mate in the eventuality that you would be the nominee?

SEN. OBAMA: Well, there's no doubt that she is qualified to be vice president. There's no doubt that she's qualified to be president. I've said that before. Obviously I think I'd be a better president. Otherwise I wouldn't have been running. But she's a very capable, very smart person. And I think anybody who has been in a political contest with her can tell you that she's no pushover.

Source