CNN Democratic Presidential Debate
Interview
CNN Democratic Presidential Debate
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GOV. RICHARDSON: By the way, I'm Bill Richardson. I'm the governor of New Mexico. (Laughter, cheers, applause.) Nice to meet you all.
You know, it seems that John wants to start a class war. It seems that Barack wants to start a generational war. It seems that Senator Clinton with all due respect on her plan on Iraq doesn't end the war -- (audio break from source). (Laughter, cheers.) And I say that -- I say that because these are the fundamental issues.
Do our plans end the war? Do our plans make America energy independent? Do our plans give health care to every American? Are we creating jobs and economic growth? Are we resolving the real problems affecting this country? You know, let's stop this mud slinging. Let's stop this going after each other on character, on trust. Let us debate the issues that affect the American people -- (cheers, applause) -- and let us be positive. Let's be positive.
MR. BLITZER: I just want to go down the line and ask everyone, and then we're going to move on to the next question.
Just to be precise because there was a little confusion, thanks to Senator Edwards earlier in the week, I just want to make sure I fully understand all of you Democrats. Are you ready to commit absolutely, positively that you will support the Democratic nominee, no matter who that nominee is, no ifs, ands or buts?
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GOV. RICHARDSON: Yes, I will support the nominee.
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MR. BLITZER: Assuming we don't -- in the absence of comprehensive immigration reform -- doesn't look like it's going to happen any time soon -- do you support drivers licenses for illegal immigrants?
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GOV. RICHARDSON: Well, my answer is yes, and I did it. You know why? Because the Congress -- I notice Barack mentioned the president, but the Congress also failed miserably to pass comprehensive immigration. And we need to have it in this country.
I did it four years ago. My legislature sent me a bill. I signed it. My law enforcement people said it's a matter of public safety. What we need is public safety, a reduction in traffic fatalities. We wanted more people to be insured. When we started with this program, 33 percent of all New Mexicans had -- were uninsured. Today it's 11 percent. Traffic fatalities have gone down. It's a matter of public safety.
MR. BLITZER: All right.
GOV. RICHARDSON: The states have to act when the federal government and the Congress doesn't act. The answer is comprehensive immigration. (Cheers, applause.)
The answer is --
MR. BLITZER: Your answer is yes.
GOV. RICHARDSON: -- secure the borders, a stronger relationship with Mexico. Those that knowingly hire illegal workers should be punished, and a path to legalization. That is the solution.
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GOV. RICHARDSON: I think the key -- I want to be the education president. The key to a good education is a strong teacher. One of the problems we have in this country is we disrespect teachers. We underpay them. (Cheers, applause.) I would have a minimum wage for all teachers starting out at $40,000 per year.
And Chris, I think we need to be bolder with No Child Left Behind. I would junk it. This is a disaster. (Cheers, applause.) It's got to go. I would have preschool for every child. I'd have full day kindergarten. America is 29th in science to the European Union, to Japan. We need to have science and math academies, hire a hundred thousand science and math teachers, have art in the schools. We need also -- (interrupted by applause) -- we need also to have a college education policy that deals with these huge loans that are killing our college students. (Cheers, applause.)
And what I would do -- look, what I would do -- and you know, we're at a great college here.
What I would do is, in exchange for two years of tuition, government pays tuition, one year of national service for this country. (Applause.) Those are the kind of creative solutions we want in this country.
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MR. BLITZER: Well, let me bring in Governor Richardson.
Governor Richardson, you've suggested cutting off military aid to Pakistan, so long as the Pakistani leader doesn't take these steps to restore the constitution, take off his military uniform, end the national state of emergency and have free and fair elections. But some are worried, including the opposition leader, Benazir Bhutto -- I spoke with her earlier this week -- that cutting off military aid to the Pakistan military could undermine U.S. national security.
This is a country that has nuclear weapons. It has a strong Taliban presence, an al Qaeda presence. Are you worried at all that as bad as President Musharraf might be, it could get a whole lot worse over there?
GOV. RICHARDSON: Well, of course, I'm worried. But what happened with our Pakistan policy, we got our principles wrong. We forgot our principles, our principles that we said to Musharraf, you know, Musharraf, security is more important than human rights. If I'm president, it's the other way around -- (applause) -- democracy and human rights.
What I would do is, yes, I would condition the assistance to Musharraf. We give him $10 billion. 60 percent of that is to his military. I would say, President Musharraf, unless you restore the constitution, unless you have elections in January, unless you end the state of emergency, unless you allow Benazir Bhutto to run as a candidate, unless you put the supreme court back.
And something else we've forgotten: He is supposed to go after terrorists on his border, and he has done a very weak job of doing that. (Scattered applause.) And you know, I would condition the assistance.
MR. BLITZER: All right.
GOV. RICHARDSON: But here is another point -- no, but here's another point. Pakistani -- in Pakistan -- in the politics of Pakistan, Islamic parties get maybe 15 percent of the vote. I mean, so this threat that, oh, revolutionary elements are going to overtake him -- if he has a fair election, and you take his party and Benazir Bhutto's party and you get the military --
MR. BLITZER: But --
GOV. RICHARDSON: -- I believe that moderate forces can win. So if we're on the side of democracy and human rights and we're on the side of Musharraf having elections, then U.S. interests are preserved and the Pakistani people have a democracy. (Applause.)
MR. BLITZER: Let me just be precise because I want to make sure we all -- I heard you correctly. What you're saying, Governor, is that human rights, at times, are more important than American national security?
GOV. RICHARDSON: Yes, because I believe we -- (applause) -- we need to find ways to say to the world that, you know, it's not just about what Halliburton wants in Iraq, it's also about our -- (cheers, applause) -- values of freedom, equality.
Our strength is not just military and economic. Our strength as a nation is our values -- equality, freedom, democracy --
MR. BLITZER: All right. All right.
GOV. RICHARDSON: -- human rights. (Applause.)
MR. BLITZER: Senator Edwards, I want you to weigh in.
GOV. RICHARDSON: That's why we are strong.
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MR. ROBERTS: All right, to Governor Richardson, a military police unit from the Nevada National Guard, stationed about 12 miles from here, just left for its third tour of duty in Iraq. I want to talk to you for just a moment here about the effect of the troop increase over there. It's true that 2007 is the deadliest year so far, since 2003, for American forces.
But it's also true that U.S. troop deaths have been declining steadily since the spring. And in fact, in the month of October, they were at their lowest level in nearly two years. At the same time, there has been a marked decline in the number of deaths of Iraqi people.
Is General David Petraeus correct when he says that the troop increase is bringing security to Iraq?
GOV. RICHARDSON: John, we shouldn't be talking about body counts. One American death is too much.
And -- (interrupted by cheers, applause) -- what I am saying here is the surge is not working. There is less -- right now less possibility of a political solution. Three out of the 18 benchmarks -- the General Accounting Office -- have been fulfilled. Even among Republican math is a failing grade. (Laughter.) What I'm saying, also, is that look at this statistic -- 65 percent of the Iraqi people now say it's okay to shoot an American soldier. Our troops are dying -- over 3,800, two today, 60,000 wounded, casualties, mainly mental trauma.
Now, my position is that we get the troops out in a year. Leave no residual forces behind unlike some of my colleagues here that want to leave some until 2013, but not just wave goodbye because we have a responsibility, and that is, one, to get a political compromise, a U.S.-led political compromise among the three groups; that they share power -- the Sunni, the Shi'a, the Kurds -- that they share oil revenues; that we have an all-Muslim, all-Arab peacekeeping force with some European forces headed by the U.N.; a donor conference that involves other countries; European Union, rich Arab states contributing to the reconstruction of Iraq, where we have spent --
MR. BLITZER: All right.
GOV. RICHARDSON: -- $500 billion --
MR. BLITZER: Thank you, Senator (sic/Governor).
GOV. RICHARDSON: -- in this war when this money should be used in America for health care, education and for kids. (Cheers, applause.)
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MR. BLITZER: Okay. I'm optimistic. (Laughter.)
Governor Richardson's a former Energy secretary. What do you do with the nuclear waste in the interim?
GOV. RICHARDSON: Well, you mentioned all the labs, Argonne, Yucca Mountain. I was in charge of them. Here's what you do.
First, the future is renewable. It's not oil, it's not coal, it's not nuclear. (Applause.) What you do with the waste is you don't put it in Yucca Mountain. All my life -- as secretary of Energy, as a congressman -- I opposed the site for environmental reasons, water saturation.
I don't think the answer, also, is in regional sites.
There's a technological solution, a scientific solution. What I would do, I would turn Yucca Mountain into a national laboratory. We have the greatest brains, our national lab scientists. We need to find a way to safely dispose of nuclear waste. There is a technological solution.
But while we do that, we shouldn't be giving the nuclear power industry all of these advantages in the Senate bills that are coming forth, or subsidies. Oil, coal and nuclear are getting most of the subsidies.
We need an energy revolution in this country -- (applause) -- to shift from fossil fuels to renewable sources by 50 percent by the year 2020. Eighty percent reduction of greenhouse emissions, a mandate.
MR. BLITZER: All right.
GOV. RICHARDSON: We need to have 30 percent of our electricity renewable.
And it's got to be also the American people -- I'm g going to say this honestly -- sacrificing a little bit when it comes to appliances -- (applause) -- and when it comes to being part of an energy efficiency revolution.
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JEANNIE (sp) JACKSON: Well, I think you're all about getting us out of Iraq, and I appreciate, so it may be a moot point. But my son's making $30,000 while corporate people are making, minimum, $100,000 for going over there. Is there any way to end this disparity in wages?
And also, I'd like to say to Bill Richardson: Happy Birthday. (Laughter, applause.) Thank you.
MS. BLITZER: Let's throw the question to the birthday boy. (Laughter.)
MS. MALVEAUX: Okay, I guess he gets the gift here. And obviously, we're talking about private contractors. Governor Richardson, you know that Senator Obama has said he would pull out all of the private contractors if in fact that he was president. But in light of how stretched our military is, do you think that's a practical solution?
GOV. RICHARDSON: Yes. I would pull out all the contractors. (Cheers, applause.) I would get them all out, just like I would get all our troops out, all residual forces. And I would do it within a year.
JEANNIE (sp) JACKSON: Great answer.
GOV. RICHARDSON: Here's my answer.
What I believe we need to do is we need to reform our military. This is what I would do.
This war in Iraq has bled us enormously, has bled our military enormously. I would find ways to keep the all-volunteer force. Now, I would say to you that I would have two more divisions in the Army, two more in the Marines. I would increase military pay and educational benefits, a new G.I. Bill for our military. (Applause.)
But what I would also do is with our veterans, you know, and military families. I would have a heroes health card for every military person in this country -- (applause) -- which would mean that they could get health care, not just at the VA system but anywhere they want. I would fully guarantee funding at the VA.
And most importantly the big, big challenge is mental health. We don't treat mental health with the parity that this country deserves. And our kids coming back from Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam -- there's a huge burden, mental trauma, traumatic brain injury, PTSD. And we have a VA system and we have a mental health system in this country that is not given the parity, the coverage that it deserves.
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S. MALVEAUX: George Ambriz. He's -- you're a graduate student here, and you're also a mentor for children. I understand that you have a concern about immigration.
Q Yes, I do. (Speaks in Spanish.) It seems that many political commentators such as Lou Dobbs are guiding the debate and strongly shaping U.S. policy on immigration by insinuating a linkage to terrorism. As many people know, no terrorist has come from our southern border. Do you consider fighting terrorism and slowing the flow of illegal immigration coming from our southern border as intrinsically related issues?
MS. MALVEAUX: Governor Richardson, since you're the only on this stage who does not support even building a fence, why don't you take this one?
REP. KUCINICH: That's not true.
GOV. RICHARDSON: By the way, Dennis, you keep -- stop including me in all these votes. I've been a governor. I'm in New Mexico. (Laughter.) I'm not in Washington. (Applause.)
Here's my answer. You know, two years ago -- and I'm the only one that's dealt with the immigration issue directly.
You know, and by the way, with the Congress, let me just say, the Congress's approval rating is 11 percent. Now, you know who's higher? Dick Cheney and HMOs. (Laughter.)
My point is that, you know, let's talk about the need to bring this together. Dysfunctional relationships exist between the president and the Congress that needs to be corrected.
Here's my answer. Two years ago, I'm the first governor that declared a border emergency because the federal government wasn't doing its job in stopping the flow of drugs and people. But you know what? We should stop demonizing immigrants. We should stop doing that. (Applause.)
And I'm against the fence -- and I am against the fence because it will not work. The Congress only funded half of the fence, and it's not America.
What I would do is I would do four quick things. One, we have to secure the border. Double the number of Border Patrol agents. Keep the National Guard there a little longer; detection equipment, as you mentioned.
Secondly, those that knowingly hire illegal workers should be punished. (Applause.)
Third, we should have a relationship -- it's called foreign policy -- with Mexico. They're our friend. But we should speak frankly to our friends, and it should be something like this. "Mexico, give jobs to your people." (Cheers, applause.) "You know, at the very least, stop handing out maps on the easiest place to cross." (Laughter.) And then, lastly, a legalization plan -- a legalization plan --
MR. BLITZER: Thank you.
GOV. RICHARDSON: -- not amnesty, not citizenship, but a path to legalization that involves conditions -- learning English --
MR. BLITZER: Thank you.
GOV. RICHARDSON: -- paying back taxes.
MR. BLITZER: Governor, thank you.
GOV. RICHARDSON: This is a very important issue.
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MR. BLITZER: Let's go down the whole panel, and if you could give me a short yes or no; would you insist on a Supreme Court nominee supporting abortion?
GOV. RICHARDSON: I would have diversity as a prime criterion, but I would also ask my nominee -- this is what I would ask: Number one, do you believe Roe versus Wade is settled law? Number two, do you support the right to privacy? Number three, do you support civil rights? Number four, do you support -- (what you asked ?) -- education, school equalization?
If the answer is no to those questions that basically say is it settled law or not -- you want to call it a litmus test, fine -- those would be the judges that I would appoint for the Supreme Court. (Applause.)
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MR. BLITZER: All right. Thank you, Senator.
We're going to go back to Suzanne, but go ahead, Governor Richardson, very briefly.
GOV. RICHARDSON: Well, you know, tonight we've talked about Iran, we've talked about Iraq, we've talked about regimes that have not been friendly. I'd thrown in North Korea.
The cornerstone of my foreign policy would be diplomacy and negotiation.
We would be not the world's policemen but the world's conscience. All my life as an ambassador to the United Nations, as a special envoy, I've brought people together -- as a governor, bipartisan solutions, as a congressmen, as a secretary of Energy.
I'm going to answer your question specifically on the Middle East. Number one, I would have a Middle East peace envoy. This president's the only president that hasn't had one. I would base a Middle East settlement on a two-state solution: protection for the security of Israel and a Palestinian state.
I would also look at adjustments in the '67 borders. I would also look at dealing effectively and efficiently and fairly with the settlements issue, with Jerusalem. I would do something else. I would talk to Syria. I would talk to Iran.
It's all tied in a solution. It's called leadership and diplomacy. And to take these steps, you have to be bold. We're talking about electing a president that is going to need to repair the enormous damage of this administration in the last eight years.
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