Hearing of the House Energy and Commerce Committee's Commerce, Trade, and Consumer Protection Subcommittee - Child/Consumer Product Safety Panel I

Interview

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REP. DARLENE HOOLEY (D-OR): Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I don't think we have two members from Colorado on here. (Laughs.)

Thank you for holding this important hearing. And thank you, Chairman Nord and Commissioner Moore, for being here today and providing your testimony.

I commend the enormous amount of work that has gone into crafting H.R.4040, and although I think there are some pieces of the bill that can be improved, this comprehensive and bipartisan legislation is a huge step in the right in direction.

I'm also pleased that H.R.4040 includes very similar language to a bill that I introduced requiring that children's products are certified safe. My legislation called for toys intended for children five and under be certified and I commend the subcommittee for raising that age to six.

At this critical time before the holiday gift-giving season, it's vital that Americans can trust and know that products they purchase for children are safe. There have been over 21 million children's products recalled this year. I wish I could say that things were getting better, less dangerous toys were reaching our shelves, and that the CPSC was achieving its mission. Unfortunately, I cannot. Dangerous toys are still reaching our shelves and the CPSC is still unequipped to handle its enormous task.

Hopefully, this hearing will serve as an opportunity for Chairman Nord to more emphatically convey what is clear to me: The CPSC is an agency in distress and not meeting its mission. I believe it is due to several things, one of which is too few resources and not enough regulatory authority. Chairman Nord, as head of the CPSC, should be the one who's in the best position to see the shortcomings with her distressed agency, but unfortunately this has not been the case. In a Senate hearing, Chairman Nord was pressed on what resources the CPSC needed to function properly and she was noncommittal saying the job could be done by the president's budget. I flatly disagree.

According to internal records obtained by the Washington Post, Chairman Nord, as well as her predecessor, traveled at the expense of the toy, appliance, children's furniture industries and others that her agency is charged with regulating. This includes trips sponsored by lobbying groups and lawyers representing the makers of products linked to consumer hazards. Chairman Nord has pointed out that this travel falls within the federal guidelines. These guidelines that she cites are also the agency's -- also state that agencies must avoid the appearance of impropriety. In my mind, travel paid by the very companies an agency is charged with regulating does not meet this standard.

A great deal needs to be done to make sure that what goes on our store shelves are safe, and that Americans can trust that the toys they bring home for their children to play with are safe. I applaud this committee's work on this issue and look forward to a markup as soon as possible on this important bill.

And I yield back the remainder of my time.

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REP. DARLENE HOOLEY (D-OR): Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just need some clarification from you. I was talking to a fairly large chain store that -- I asked them about what goes on their shelves and how do they make sure that the toys are safe and their products are safe. And they went on to tell me how they go to the manufacturer, wherever the manufacturer is and ensure that their safe before they even reach our shores and reach their shelves. So they have full confidence that what they are selling is safe.

So my question is if a chain store can do that, can your agency do that to test these toys -- I mean, and I'm, as you know, very concerned about the lead in paint for children-- or lead in toys for children. Can your agency make sure that these toys are tested before they leave the country where they were manufactured so we don't even have to get into the recalls?

I mean, as you've heard say today, I mean if a toy is recalled, the problem is the parent doesn't really know. It may be sitting, you know, in an old box where if you have a lot of kids, you stuff toys over here and save them for the next child. So can we stop them from coming into the country in the first place?

MS. NORD: Our agency does not have pre-market testing and certification requirements. I have asked the Congress to include legislation that would give us the authority to require that companies certify that they are complying with existing safety standards. If companies did that, that would then force the testing to occur, and I would like to see that authority in this legislation.

REP. HOOLEY: Do you think the bill as it's currently written has that authority?

MS. NORD: No, it does not. I would like to see that authority.

REP. HOOLEY: Okay. Second question I have -- so there's a way to do that, if we give you the authority to do that. Okay.

MS. NORD: Certification authority would be very helpful.

REP. HOOLEY: Okay. A second question I have is we've talked, you've testified in the Senate, you've testified before in this committee and I've heard sort of this well, we don't need the money; well, we need the money; well, we don't need -- so I just need to know -- (chuckles) -- where are you in terms of what do you need to do the job to the very best of your ability? I mean, I understand that it's difficult to go out and hire 400 people or 200 people at a time, but what are we talking about? What's the amount of money that it's going to take for you to really do your job?

MS. NORD: I have said repeatedly, and I will say it again, I would welcome more resources. I want more money.

Now, with respect to the specifics, what we did when you -- this committee passed out the previous legislation, is our administrative staff sat down and priced it out, if you will. And what we found was in order to comply with that we were going to need, I believe it was around -- someplace between 25 and 30 additional staff and about 6 million additional dollars.

I did the same thing with the Senate bill, and that was much higher. We will do that with this bill as well, and we will do it very quickly.

REP. HOOLEY: Okay. And then the last question I have for you is, again, when you were testifying in front of the Senate committee you said you opposed the whistleblower provision and you talked about this would drain resources. Do you have any economic data on that? And if so, what is it and is there any whistleblower provisions that you would in fact be for?

MS. NORD: One observation I would make to you, just as an aside, is after I sent that letter up to the Senate expressing my concerns there, the Senate did amend the provision. So to a certain extent, they attempted to listen.

I continue to be very concerned about it, and what I would like to do, if I might, is submit a memorandum to you that outlines my concerns in more detail, including the economic concerns.

REP. HOOLEY: Okay. And is there a whistleblower provision that you would support?

MS. NORD: I'd really need to see the language. I mean, I can't --

REP. HOOLEY: Well, if you have -- if you say you don't like what was in the Senate, so -- and you're going to send me the economic data, which I would really appreciate, I guess as just opposing something, I would love to also know what you might support.

MS. NORD: Again, I -- thank you.

REP. HOOLEY: No, just send me what -- I mean, you can just send to me what you think you would support.

REP. RUSH: The gentlelady's time is up.

REP. HOOLEY: Thank you.

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