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SEN. BIDEN: Folks, how are you?
We just heard from the secretary of Defense and the secretary of State. Obviously it was in a classified setting. But let me just say this: The administration thus far has not had a strategy for victory. They've had a strategy how to avoid outright defeat.
And the president's trip to Iraq today hopefully carries with it more than his just a showing of support for the new Iraqi government. Hopefully he went with a message to deal with three things everyone knows have to be dealt with. One is the militias and the infiltration of the regular army and the police by the sectarian thugs that no one trusts; secondly, a plan for how to get the Sunnis to buy in to this government so that they amend their constitution later this summer as their present constitution calls for to get the Sunnis to buy in; and three, a way in which for the major powers to call for a regional conference whereby you get the powers in the region to agree to keep hands off and the major powers to essentially be the arbiters of that.
But it remains to be seen what the president is saying to the Iraqi government or what needs to -- what he thinks needs to be done. If it's the status quo -- (word inaudible) -- just that we got rid of Zarqawi and that the -- there is a unity government, if that's the basis on which the president thinks we're going to prevail in Iraq, I think he's sadly mistaken. Hopefully, his visit is a prelude to as fundamental a change in policy toward Iraq as he recently made with regard to Iran.
Q Senator Biden --
SEN. REED: Let me just say a few words. There's nothing remarkably new that I heard upstairs. There is a new government that gives an opportunity for the Iraqis to be more purposeful and more aggressive in trying to deal with the issues that Senator Biden laid out -- controlling the militias, reaching out to the Sunni community, trying to create an atmosphere of economic and political opportunity. But one thing that still concerns me is the inability to date for the United States to match its military power with complementary civilian power. We still have just four provisional reconstruction teams there. We're not investing the nonmilitary assets we need to help this transition. Military forces have bought us some time, but it's up to us working with the Iraqis to make real progress on fronts other than just the military front. It's also the economic and political fronts.
Q (Off mike) -- the budget incentive package on Iran. You've been talking about having a dialogue for a while, but now the administration has suggested engaging a dialogue and incentives package. Could you give us your reaction on that with Iran?
SEN. BIDEN: Look, with regard to Iran as it relates to Iraq, in my view there -- the last thing the Iranians want is an all-out civil war in Iraq. We have some mutuality of interest there. I find it somewhat disturbing that the administration is not more forthcoming in engaging Iran as it relates to Iraq. I know that that's what our ambassador wanted to do, and there doesn't seem to be much progress there.
The incentive package that is -- that the European 3, the Russians, the Chinese and the United States have put forward I think is going to be a process of a lot of bluster on the part of the Iranians for a while. They'll come back and forth. But as long as they stay engaged and we keep moving together -- that is the European 3, China, the United States and Russia -- we have a real opportunity to deal with the nuclear question.
They are separable questions. I mean, they're separate questions, Iraq and the nuclear question. But the bottom line is we should not be reluctant to talk to Iran about either of those issues. I don't know how you end up with a solution that is acceptable in Iraq without getting some agreement from the neighbors, from Turkey to Iran to Syria, to have a hands-off policy in Iraq.
Q Senators, do either of you plan to vote in favor of Senator Kerry's amendment on Iraq in terms of withdrawing and setting a timetable?
SEN. REED: Well, I don't know if we've reached the final language on Senator Kerry's amendment yet. We're talking among ourselves with not just Senator Kerry but many other senators about a possible amendment, and at this juncture, I'd like to see the final language and where he proposes it.
Q (Off mike) -- pullout date?
SEN. REED: I think we're talking about making a transition beginning in `06. We asked that transition be made last year in the Defense authorization bill. I was -- heard just this Sunday that the National Security adviser for the Iraqi government talked about reducing troops this year, and his language was significant troop withdrawals by the end of `07. That's probably a very good target.
SEN. BIDEN: I haven't seen Senator Kerry's amendment. There's two things that you have to look at. One is getting American forces out, and secondly, is leaving something behind that's more stable than when you went in. And so one of the things we're all working on together in the Democratic Caucus is such a proposal. But it seems to me, you have to do three things.
You have to deal with the whole idea of the militia. You have to deal with getting Sunni buy-in. And you have to deal with getting agreements that the other powers stay out. Under that circumstance, you're able to withdrawal forces relatively quickly over the next 18 months with very little left behind.
But I have not seen Senator Kerry's proposal. I think that's a naked date without it being attached to what our plan is as to how you would succeed in leaving something better -- would not be the most appropriate way to go.
Q What about -- (off mike) --for all future Iraq war allocations -- (off mike) -- the budget as opposed to war supplementals?
SEN. REED: Well, the question is whether we should include appropriations for Iraq in the regular budget or in the supplementals. I've urged for years to put it in the regular budget because what we're doing is fooling ourselves by thinking that indefinitely we can pass supplementals of 80 or $90 billion a year or more to fund our military needs. Recognize that this will cause tremendous tension and dislocation in the budget, but recognize also there's another question here: How are we honestly going to pay for this war? And to date, the administration has not honestly paid for this war, has not asked the American public to sacrifice, in fact, continues to come to the floor and ask for more and more tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans.
So to be honest about not only accounting for the expenditures we're paying for, you have to have the president stand up and ask for the American people to sacrifice, as well as put it in the regular course of business.
SEN. BIDEN: One of the things we learned in that other war that this is compared to, Vietnam, is that unless you level with the American people, you can't expect to get their support. This administration, day one, has not leveled with the American people, and they wonder why the American people are walking away from them. The idea that this administration doesn't know the minimum amount of money they're going to need to spend next fiscal year in Iraq, if that's really true, it reinforces the idea, the point, that they have no idea what they're doing -- none whatsoever.
We should level with the American people. It should be on the regular budget. It should not be in a supplemental. Everyone knows it costs 5 (billion dollars) to $8 billion a month depending on the month what it takes to maintain our forces there. Tell the American people the truth. They're grown-ups.
Q Senator Biden, what affect do you think --
Q (Off mike) --Shi'a, Sunnis and the Iraqis idea -- you've been talking about this idea of separating into Shi'a, Sunni and Iraqis. Could you discuss that at all?
SEN. BIDEN: I discussed that with some of colleagues. Look, in order for Iraq to be a united nation without a civil war five years from now, you better give the Iraqi elements that are now in a simmering civil war, you better give them some breathing room. You better give them some breathing room. That's exactly what we did in the Balkans where there was as much sectarian violence, if not more, than existed in Iraq. The Dayton Accords did precisely that. It set up three presidents -- and I'm not even stressing this.
All I'm suggesting is what already is called for by the Iraqi constitution that has been passed. The Iraqi constitution says that any three of the governances, that is, those individual 18 states, wants to get together to form a region they can. I think we should have a central government, which the constitution calls for, defined as being responsible for the borders, border security, foreign policy and allocation of natural resources.
But I also think, just like in the states, you should have the autonomy over those things which are the most divisive in Iraq: what the marriage laws are, what the laws relating to women's conduct in public, what the laws are in the states relating to education. Give them some breathing room, and guarantee that the Sunnis have a piece of the economic action.
The idea that this parliament, 60-some percent Shi'a, is going to breath faith into the folks of Fallujah, who are Sunnis, that they're going to get their share of sewer money or highway money or hospital money or police money is just not reasonable. And so even the president coming out of Camp David said maybe there should be some sort of commitment on the part of the Iraqi government to guarantee certain amounts of dollars of oil revenue to the Sunnis. So the combination has to occur.
Give breathing room on the very local things that are causing people to kill one another. Keep the national government in charge of the borders, the national police, the national army, and give some allocation of the resources to Sunnis.
This is all called for within their constitution. It is all set up right now. Everyone anticipates there's going to have to be an amendment to the constitution for the Sunnis to buy-in. That's why Zal got -- our ambassadors got such a turnout in December 15th. At the last minute, he amended -- got them to amend the constitution. And so that's the essence of it.
Thank you.
SEN. REED: Thank you very much.