Hearing of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform - Blackwater USA; Private Security Contracting in Iraq & Afghanistan

Interview

Hearing of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform - Blackwater USA; Private Security Contracting in Iraq & Afghanistan

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REP. BETSY MCCOLLUM (D-MN): Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. McHenry and I had the opportunity to go to Afghanistan together, where, in fact, the military did provide, when we went out on visits, did provide our security. I also had the opportunity of being in Iraq, where we had a private security detail take us from point to point. And I just -- there's been some discussion about who is more caring about getting on the ground and seeing what is going on. And I just wanted people to know for the record here that I've been both places and under both circumstances.

I'd like to follow up a little more on what Mr. Braley was talking about. You've provided this chart on contractor accountability, and you've made the statement that the DOD can bring charges against your contractors. Can the Department of State bring charges against your contractor?

MR. PRINCE: I believe that would be done by the Justice Department. They do the prosecuting of those laws.

REP. MCCOLLUM: Under the CPA Order 17, contractors have immunity from the Iraqi legal system. Is that correct?

MR. PRINCE: That's my understanding, yes.

REP. MCCOLLUM: So if a Blackwater contractor would commit what an investigation might determine would be murder, on their own time, it was the Christmas Eve holiday, I believe, that you were describing, or Christmas holiday. Do you believe the Iraqi government would not be able to charge that individual with a crime, even on their own time?

MR. PRINCE: That's my understanding, yes.

REP. MCCOLLUM: Do you believe that immunity should be repealed if something happens when someone's, quote-unquote, "off duty" and an Iraqi is murdered?

MR. PRINCE: I believe U.S. laws should be enforced, and you can have that justice system back here in America work.

REP. MCCOLLUM: So you believe that the immunity under CPA Order 17 should stand.

MR. PRINCE: I believe so. I'm not sure any foreigner would get a fair trial in Iraq right now. I think they would at least get a fair trial here in the United States.

REP. MCCOLLUM: Your charts indicate that contractors are accountable under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Your contractors work for the Department of State. Is the Department of State accountable under the Uniform Code of Military Justice?

MR. PRINCE: I will not be presumptuous to answer for the Department of State, ma'am.

REP. MCCOLLUM: Well, you've provided this. You told Mr. Braley that all your employees are under this chart. So then you're saying that --

MR. PRINCE: Well, ultimately it's for the Justice Department to decide which avenue of jurisdiction they have.

REP. MCCOLLUM: So this is just what you feel that people might be held under accountability with your contractors. This is just a feeling you have. You don't know any of that for a fact, do you?

MR. PRINCE: I have legal opinions that I respect; put that together. And they gave their opinions that those were laws that State Department contractors, DOD contractors, contractors for the U.S. government, could be held accountable under.

REP. MCCOLLUM: So whether it's a feeling or an opinion, you cannot state for a fact, for a fact, that any of your contractors that have a State Department contract can be held accountable under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

MR. PRINCE: That's correct, ma'am, because that's for the Justice Department to decide.

REP. MCCOLLUM: I think that's important to clear that up. Do you operate in a military capacity or civilian capacity?

MR. PRINCE: Civilian capacity.

REP. MCCOLLUM: So now you're saying that civilians can be --

MR. PRINCE: Well, our men are not serving members of the U.S. military.

REP. MCCOLLUM: So you're saying that civilians can be held accountable to the Uniform Code of Military Justice, in your opinion.

MR. PRINCE: And I believe that's why they extended that not just to wars that were declared but also to contingency operations as well.

REP. MCCOLLUM: To your knowledge, have there been any military courts or civilian courts that have held any of the contractors who have been charged or been accused of a crime in Iraq?

MR. PRINCE: It's my understanding there was a conviction of a contractor that was working for the CIA that was convicted in North Carolina for actions in Afghanistan, not Iraq.

REP. WAXMAN: The gentlelady's time has expired.

REP. MCCOLLUM: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you for answering my questions. I appreciate it.

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