NPR "All Things Considered"-Transcript

Interview

MR. SIEGEL: We're joined now by Senator Barbara Boxer. She's a Democrat from California. She's been outspoken in her opposition to the Iraq war since it began.

Welcome to the program, Senator Boxer.

SEN. BOXER: Thank you so much.

MR. SIEGEL: You are a co-sponsor of the Levin-Reid amendment that we've just heard David Welna talk about. And I assume bringing out the cots means that there will be a debate on it, but we seem to know what the outcome is. What's the point of having a debate over an amendment that we assume will not receive cloture?

SEN. BOXER: The American people deserve this debate and our fighting men and women deserve this debate -- and their families and the wounded. Look, all we're asking for is an up or down vote. Majority rules -- that's it. That's what we're asking for on our Iraq amendment -- the only one that will start redeploying our troops out of the middle of the civil war and would change the mission for our troops. And we feel very strongly that they can call -- you know, they can demean this effort all they want, the Republicans, but this is something that has to happen.

MR. SIEGEL: Let's not use the phrase "political theater" but isn't there something essentially symbolic in a debate in which you know that you don't have 60 votes to receive cloture?

SEN. BOXER: Well, you know, I come from a place where I believe maybe a debate can change a vote or two. We know there is at least one Republican out there who's thinking about it. There may be more. We're also having a vigil tonight and this vigil, I think, is going to be very, very moving. The military families are going to be there. A lot of veterans are going to be there. And you know, as we go through this evening this is not going to be a lighthearted debate. This is going to be very, very serious debate. We're going to talk about those we lost.

You know, I'm a senator from the largest state in the Union and we've lost more soldiers than any other state. Twenty-one percent of all those killed have been from California or based in California. And out of those 770 dead, 192 never lived to see their 21st birthday. So this is a question of conscience and I think we need more of this, not less of this.

MR. SIEGEL: I'd like to hear your opinion of the resolution that Senators Warner and Lugar have in mind. Two senior Republicans who would, in fact, call for a new war authorization, but they would call upon the president to revise his Iraq strategy, in a nonbinding resolution, by mid-October. That's a lot less -- a lot less than what you want. On the other hand, it seems if two Republicans like that are behind it you could probably achieve a pretty strong majority repudiating, in a nonbinding resolution, the president's Iraq strategy. Can you see down the road doing that?

SEN. BOXER: Look, I never speculate as to how I'd vote down the road. I just know it's facing me in the next several hours and through the night. This is the only one -- the only amendment that will get our troops out of the middle of a civil war where they really don't know where the enemy is, who the enemy is, who's going to fight them, who's going to kill them, who's going to wound them, who's going to blow up an improvised explosive advice near their brain so that it will never be the same.

And you know, it's all fine that Senators Warner and Lugar -- and I have deep respect and admiration; I'm very good friends with them -- I think it's good that they're doing what they're doing, but it doesn't change a thing on the ground. What it basically says is, "Mr. President, get ready for the next phase of this war." And that's always important and I support that, but again it's not in the same --

MR. SIEGEL: But the Senate hasn't been able to agree on that very message to the president. Would there be some value in joining together on such a message?

SEN. BOXER: Well, it doesn't force him, really, to do anything. Yeah, maybe there'd be value in it, but I'm talking about changing what's happening on the ground.

And here's the point: We think we have a majority to do that -- a majority to do that in the United States Senate. The House voted with a majority to do that. So we say the Republicans -- and we hope all the American people, regardless of what side they're on -- will say, in fairness, let's have an up or down vote on this.

We want to change course and we probably have the votes. And the reason I say probably is, you know, we haven't had them so far so I'm not sure, but I think we do have them.

MR. SIEGEL: Well, Senator Boxer, thank you very much for talking with us.

SEN. BOXER: Thank you.

Source