ABC Primetime Live Transcript - Part 2

ANNOUNCER

Coming up, the capture of Saddam. And the phone call between a father and his son.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

It was a touching moment because dad, I could sense this great sense of pride in his voice.

ANNOUNCER

When "Primetime" returns.

commercial break

ANNOUNCER

Once again, Diane Sawyer.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) As we return, now, we're joined by Mrs. Bush, to talk about how the family learned of the capture of Saddam Hussein. The President said he was at Camp David.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

I was at what they call Aspen, which is the Presidential cabin, reading the book on Ben Franklin. And the phone, the man came in, the guy at the house came in and said, "there's a secure phone call from Secretary Rumsfeld." That doesn't happen very often. And, my first anticipation was something bad has happened. And he got on the phone and said, "first reports aren't always accurate, but John Abizaid thinks that we have captured Saddam Hussein."

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) At that moment, what happened inside you?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

At that moment, a cautionary note came, because I had been disappointed before. My instincts were to say, "that is good news, but let's make sure it's true." Because I know how hard they had been working to accomplish this mission. It was the next morning when Miss Rice called, that would be Condi Rice, at 5:15 in the morning, saying, "it has been confirmed out of Baghdad that we have captured Saddam Hussein," that I began to have a sense of joy for the Iraqi people. And a sense of accomplishment for our troops. You know, my dad called me during this series of phone calls I was making to our allies and friends, and he said, "congratulations, son." I said, "dad, this is a joyous moment for the Iraqi people."

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) But did you have a moment, just father-to-son, after 12 years, in which Saddam Hussein had called you the son of the viper?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Right. No, not really. I was busy, believe this or not. Look, I had phone calls stacked up, and I wanted, I didn't want to keep other foreign leaders waiting. It was, it was a touching moment, because dad, I could sense this great sense of pride in his voice. And, but it was very important for him to realize that the moment is, it's an important moment. But there's nothing final about it. The only thing that's final about it is that the Iraqi people don't have to worry about Saddam ever again. But there's no finality for me. There's a lot more to be done in Iraq.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) What did your mom say?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Haven't spoken to her yet. No, I know you probably don't think I'm telling the truth. But I'm telling you, I haven't checked in with her. She'd probably say, "next time you go on TV, keep your hair better combed," knowing her.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) If President Bush has a famously outspoken mother, it seems his wife is probably more assertive than we see. Do you remember when the President said this about the war in Iraq?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

There are some who feel like that, you know, the conditions are such that they can attack us there. My answer is "bring 'em on."

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) Well, someone else saw it, too. We begin by talking about the President's disclosure that he doesn't read newspapers and his critics.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) First of all, I just want to ask about reading. And, Mr. President, you know that there was a great deal of reporting about the fact that you said, first of all, that you let Condoleezza Rice and Andrew Card give you a flavor of what's in the news.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Yeah.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) That you don't read the stories yourself.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Yeah. I get my news from people who don't editorialize. They give me the actual news. And it makes it easier to digest, on a daily basis, the facts.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Is it just harder to read constant criticism or to read?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Why even put up with it when you can get the facts elsewhere? I'm a lucky man. I've got, it's not just Condi and Andy. It's all kinds of people in my Administration who are charged with different responsibilities. And they come in and say, "this is what's happening, this isn't what's happening."

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) You don't think you're missing anything by not reading?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Missing opinion.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Do you read them?

LAURA BUSH

I read the newspapers, sure, of course. And I read some columns. But I agree with him that we can actually get what is really happening from the people who really know what's happening. And that isn't always what you get in the newspapers.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Do you tell him, "oh, there's a ... "?

LAURA BUSH

Sure. Sure. I mean, we talk about things that we see. But I also know that there are certain ...

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Yeah, she tells me all right.

LAURA BUSH

There are certain columnists I won't read. I mean, what, you know, why would I?

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) You were saying that ...

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Straighten up your act, Mr. President.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) I was remembering when you said "wanted dead or alive." And she suggested it to you.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Yes, she told me that.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) When you said, "bring 'em on"

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Yeah.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Did she say something to you?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

I'm sure she did. Of course, I was speaking to our troops then. Remember, we had just finished a, I mean, I don't need to rationalize it. Yeah, she said something about it. She doesn't like my rhetoric. Of course, she grew up in a part of the world where people tend to speak bluntly, so I'm surprised she doesn't understand why I speak that way. But, nevertheless, she can be a pretty tough critic. And I take it, I take it to heart, I might add. That doesn't necessarily mean I change, but I take it to heart.

ANNOUNCER

Coming up ...

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Would it be harder to run against a woman? Would you be surprised if Mrs. Clinton got in?

ANNOUNCER

When "Primetime" returns.

commercial break

ANNOUNCER

President George W. Bush, the interview, continues. Once again, Diane Sawyer.

TED KOPPEL, ABC NEWS

(Off Camera) Raise your hand if you believe that Governor Dean can beat George W. Bush.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) And now, the Presidential campaign and the punitive Democratic front-runner, former governor of Vermont, Howard Dean. Is he vulnerable in middle America for opposition to the war in Iraq?

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Howard Dean. It has been reported that members of your Administration were salivating at the prospect that he would be the nominee.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Look, I will respond to the Democratic nominee when they nominate a candidate. And I will ... look, there's just a lot of politics in Washington. Washington loves politics. It is, it makes for juicy news reporting and gossip. My job is to make this country more secure, more prosperous, and a better country. And I will continue doing that.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) He has Al Gore now endorsing him. Do you think Al Gore was looking for vindication?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

That's up for the democrats to decide all that business. And all the pundits and the people, that's your job, is to analyze all this stuff, not mine.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Would it be harder to run against a woman? Do you think it's trickier to run against a female?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

I've had that experience, and I had a tough race, and, with Governor Ann Richards.

FORMER GOVERNOR ANN RICHARDS, DEMOCRAT, TEXAS

We need somebody in the governor's office who, by gosh, has worked for a living.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

It was a, it was an interesting race and a tough race.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Would you be surprised if Mrs. Clinton got in?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

That's, that's for the Democrats to decide. Pretty soon, there'll be a candidate. And then you'll be asking me questions, "why aren't you willing to debate?" And, "why aren't you engaging?" And the reason why is because the President has got a job to do.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) You don't plan to debate?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Oh, I'm confident we'll debate. I meant early in the process. There will be all kinds of pressures to respond to this or respond to that. And I know it's coming. And I just want to warn you. I'm going to do my job. I've got a lot to do. As we say, the dance card is quite full these days. And, but we're making good progress for the country. And that's important.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) One of the worrying sectors is still jobs. Treasury Secretary John Snow said that we needed to create 200,000 more jobs a month in order, at the end of this, for you not to be the first President, as everyone has said, since Herbert Hoover, who had a net job loss in his term. How are you going to create 200,000 new jobs a month?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Well, first, let's make sure the record, so I can distinguish myself from Herbert. I inherited the recession. I didn't create one. And we responded with some tax relief, strong tax relief to stimulate the economy, and it's working. And I'm pleased. And won't rest until people who are looking for a job can find work.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) What worries you most about the economy? The deficit? Campaigning against them.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Yeah, well, you got to understand, we're at war, and I'm going to spend what is needed to win the war. And we've got to protect the homeland. We'll spend what's needed to protect the homeland. The deficit, we've got a plan to cut it in half over the next five years. It means Congress is going to have to tow the line when it comes to spending. We can't, they can't, particularly in campaign years, try to be all things to all people and overspend. But I think we're making good progress. I'm satisfied with the progress we've made.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Massachusetts Supreme Court said that they did not feel the law was in a position to block gay marriage. When you talk about the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman, are you saying you will absolutely support a Constitutional amendment against gay marriage and against gay civil unions?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

If necessary, I will support a Constitutional amendment which would honor marriage between a man and a woman, codify that. And will, the position of this Administration is that, you know, whatever legal arrangements people want to make, they're allowed to make, so long as it's embraced by the state.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Let me tell you, the court, I thought, was, overreached its bounds as a court. It did the job of the legislature. It was a very activist court in making the decision it made. And, as you know, I'm a person who believes in judicial restraint, as opposed to judicial activism that takes the place of the legislative branch.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) But, Vice President Cheney has spoken out in favor of civil unions. In the 2000 election, you said pretty much it was a state issue.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

No, that's right. Except, unless judicial rulings undermine the sanctity of marriage. In which case, we may need a Constitution - amendment.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Are they sinners? Are gays sinners?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

We're all sinners. We're all sinners, and that's important for ...

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) No distinction?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

I think we're all sinners. One of my favorite Bible verses says, "why would I take a speck out of your eye when I have a log in my own?" And having said that, however, I do believe in the sanctity of marriage. But tolerance and belief in marriage aren't mutually exclusive points of view.

ANNOUNCER

Coming up ...

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Have you bought Mrs. Bush's present yet?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

I have. Incredibly expensive.

LAURA BUSH

Yeah, sure.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

It's amazing, the fake jewelry, you just can't tell the difference between real and not.

ANNOUNCER

When "Primetime" returns.

commercial break

ANNOUNCER

Once again, Diane Sawyer.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) Once again, President and Mrs. Bush, they'll have Christmas at Camp David, with their twin daughters, Jenna and Barbara, who are about to graduate from college.

LAURA BUSH

The girls will be here, of course. One of them's already here. The other one's still in finals.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Is this serious empty nest syndrome setting in here?

LAURA BUSH

Well, we've had empty nest syndrome the whole time we've lived here at the White House. So, you know, it's just another real passage in their lives. And so it's a, also a passage in ours, when they graduate from college and go to work. They're looking forward to it. And we are, too.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) You've said, no serious boyfriends yet.

LAURA BUSH

No.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Is that kind of a relief?

LAURA BUSH

Sure. I mean, it's a relief in some ways. Although, I hope they find somebody they love. And we're both actually hoping for grandchildren right away, but don't tell them.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Who of you is a tougher judge of the boyfriends?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Me. I've got a pretty high standard. As you can imagine.

LAURA BUSH

I'm the one with a really high standard.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) And you think perhaps they'll both study teaching?

LAURA BUSH

They may do that for a while. That's what they'd like to do. And then I think they'll go to graduate school. Who knows?

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) If there's one thing you could say to them, starting this part of their lives, what would it be? Looking back when you were starting yours.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

We still love you. Go, go for it.

LAURA BUSH

Yeah, that's right. Go for it.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

And we will love you.

LAURA BUSH

For sure.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

And we will love you, no matter what happens.

LAURA BUSH

I think that the "go for it" part is really right. That it's so, one of the things I learned as I got older was how important being productive and working is to your happiness, to anyone's happiness. And so, I hope they, they learn that.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) And what about the other member of the family? That Scottish terrier named Barney?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Little Barney is a fabulous little guy. He's the son I never had.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) And is barney the son?

LAURA BUSH

Absolutely not.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

That is a provocative question.

LAURA BUSH

No, he's not. He's our precious little dog that we are so crazy about.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

That's easy for you to say. Who's out there fishing with me on a regular basis? I can't get anybody in the family to fish with me except for Barney.

LAURA BUSH

Barney does love to fish. He loves to sit on the prow of the boat.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Do you ever say, "I'm President of the United States, and I can't get anybody to go fishing"?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Well, it's a -at least when I canvass our family.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Just curious, what movies are you loving now?

LAURA BUSH

Let's see. We have a lot of movies we hope to see over the Christmas holidays, the new ones.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Number one?

LAURA BUSH

Well, we're interested in ...

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Jack Nicholson's movie.

LAURA BUSH

What's the name of it? "Something's Got to Give." Our girls tell us that "Elf" is very funny and that the President will like it.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) America is now immersed in this reality TV.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Yeah. I hate to say this, and I don't want to disappoint the people that pay your salary, but I don't watch it. I couldn't tell you, I have no idea what you're talking about. I know what reality TV is.

LAURA BUSH

We don't watch any of those shows, of course, needless to say.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Sorry about that.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) What do you watch on television?

LAURA BUSH

We watch a lot of sports.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Sports. Your show, of course. With baited breath waiting to see this.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Right.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Look, we don't watch much TV at all, as a matter of fact. We get to -I'm an early-to-rise person. Laura and I get up, we got up this morning about 5:15 this morning. And I'm at work before 7:00. And when you get up at 5:15, and work out like we both do, you get pretty sleepy at a reasonable hour. And so I don't have a lot of time for TV.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Have you bought Mrs. Bush's present yet?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

I have. Incredibly expensive. You know, it's amazing with fake jewelry, you just can't tell the difference between the real and not.

LAURA BUSH

The most fun part about the holidays and Christmas, especially, is being at Camp David with all of our family, the girls, and my mother and his parents. That'll be the really fun part. The bowling tournament and the backgammon tournament and the, what else will we have? And then going to church with those people who are stationed at Camp David, who we go to church with every Sunday that we're there.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) And on New Year's Day, you get up at sunrise and walk?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

That's right.

LAURA BUSH

Our sunrise New Year's Day walk. We started doing that with the millennium, that first, January 1st, 2000. And it's really fun for us. We love that. It gives us an opportunity to think about what's happened. We actually, at the ranch, get up and walk at sunrise everyday. But especially that New Year's Day is a special time.

ANNOUNCER

Coming up ...

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) You said once, I think it was the 2000 campaign, you didn't need to be President.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Yeah.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Do you need it now? Do you need to be re-elected?

ANNOUNCER

When "Primetime" returns.

commercial break

ANNOUNCER

President George W. Bush, the interview, continues.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Looking back, proudest moment of, let's say past four years?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Let's see, here. Proudest moment. You know, my nature is not to sit around and analyze and to second guess.

LAURA BUSH

I'm very proud of our country. And we've seen that, especially since September 11th, all the time.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Are you looking forward to this next year?

LAURA BUSH

I am looking forward to it. I like a campaign year. It's a lot of fun. It's also our last campaign.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) At no point, you ever said to each other, "do we want to do this again?"

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Not really.

LAURA BUSH

Not really.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

There's too much to do. If there had been -you know, if the war on terror was over or whatever, maybe we would have. But it's, there's too much left to do.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) You said once in, I think it was the 2000 campaign, you didn't need to be President.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Yeah.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Do you need it now? Do you need to be re-elected?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

Well, you know, let's try to put that in context. I'm not exactly sure. I'm confident I said that, if you said I said it, because my attitude was, is that, if I get whipped, fine. I can move on with my life. I've got, I've got a wife that I'm in love with. I've got daughters I love. I've got a wonderful group of friends that will be my friend -be my friends whether I'm President or not President. We've got a place we love in Texas. And so "need" is an interesting word. I want to be President because I've got a lot more to do. I believe we're on the verge of some historic change, and the world will be better off for it. And this will be, I look forward to making the case. I will be a strong defender of the decisions that I've made.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) And so, the election year 2004 begins. I'm Diane Sawyer. We thank the President and Mrs. Bush. And I'll see you tomorrow morning on "Good Morning America." Tomorrow night, Oprah Winfrey, an emotional hour. The Christmas gift that only she can give. Good night.

Copyright 2003 American Broadcasting Companies, Inc.