National Public Radio All Things Considered Transcript

November 11, 2003 Tuesday

HEADLINE: Richard Gephardt discusses his campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination

ANCHORS: MELISSA BLOCK; MICHELE NORRIS

BODY:
MELISSA BLOCK, host:

From NPR News, this is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. I'm Melissa Block.

MICHELE NORRIS, host:

And I'm Michele Norris.

Now the latest in our series of interviews with the candidates seeking the Democratic presidential nomination next year. Today, we're joined by Congressman Richard Gephardt from Missouri.

Thanks so much for being with us.

Representative RICHARD GEPHARDT (Democrat, Missouri; Presidential Candidate): Thank you.

NORRIS: We talk to you in a week when we expect to get some news from some of the larger labor unions, and labor has always been an important part of your base. And this is a week where the SEIU and AFSCME are expected to throw their support behind another candidate. They're large and influential unions. I'm wondering, sir, how did this happen? Why didn't you win their support?

Rep. GEPHARDT: Well, I think I see it a different way. I am pleased with the strong support I've gotten from labor unions. I never expected to get all of them. That's impossible. But I've gotten 20 international unions to endorse me. Other candidates may have two or three at the most, but I'm going to have the lion's share of the labor movement and I'm proud of that support.

NORRIS: In recent history, many of the presidents have won the nomination and have won the White House by running as outsiders. We saw that with President Clinton, President Carter, the current President Bush. You, sir, are seen as a Washington insider. In fact, in your campaign speeches, you often say, 'If you're looking for a fresh face-Hmm-I'm not your guy,' which is, you know, a laugh line on the campaign trail, but is this also a liability for you?

Rep. GEPHARDT: I think it's an asset. We're in an unusual time. We have terrorism in the world, and people are worried about their own security and safety. They're worried about the economy. They're worried about where this economy's headed with job creation. And I think I'm the only one in the field that can come to the voter and say, 'If you're looking for somebody with real experience in the highest levels of government who's dealt with every foreign and domestic issue this country's dealt with in the last 20 years, then maybe I am your candidate.' I really don't think people are going to transfer this responsibility from President Bush to someone that doesn't have that real experience. And so I think experience in this election is unusually an asset and not a liability.

NORRIS: Onto Iraq then, if we could. You stood shoulder-to-shoulder with the president at the White House. You authorized the resolution that allowed him to use force in Iraq. But you've been very critical of him since then. If you were elected president, how would you deal with that situation?

Rep. GEPHARDT: I would have done what I told the president over a year and a half ago he should do-and I wish he had done-and that is to get real help from the UN, from NATO, so that we can get through this successfully and not alone. I think the UN should run the civil reconstruction of Iraq. I think NATO should be there with us for the security purpose. I think it would make a huge difference psychologically in Iraq if the people there saw a truly international force, if they saw a world commitment to see this through, not just an American commitment or a British commitment. We've got to convince the Iraqi people that the world means this, that the world is there to stay, that we're going to root out the terrorists, that we're not going to let them run the show and that the people who want democracy and the four freedoms can basically achieve that.

NORRIS: 'World is there to stay.' Does that mean that at the end of your presidential term if elected, that we would expect to see significant military presence in Iraq?

Rep. GEPHARDT: I don't know. I have know way of knowing at this point how it will proceed. I guess you got to look at history. We have troops in Japan and Germany 60 years later.

NORRIS: Recently, you have taken the stage and you've spoke with great emotion about your daughter's courage to come forward to you and your family and tell you that she's gay. Your daughter has also talked at times with great emotion about your courage in expressing your support of civil unions, of ending discrimination in the workplace. And I'm wondering, sir, if this is a case where your personal experience has had a direct effect on your views of public policy.

Rep. GEPHARDT: Well, it always has an effect. You really don't understand something completely until you live through it yourself. And so having a daughter make this decision to come out did affect my views, did affect my outlook. Having said that, I was for a lot of these things before she told us that she was gay. But it does give you a deeper understanding of the discrimination.

NORRIS: And as you gain this deeper understanding, how has it affected your views on gay marriage?

Rep. GEPHARDT: Well, I still believe that civil unions is the possible outcome here that can be achieved, and it's something that has to be done at the state level. I have believed for some time that we need to conform federal laws to civil union laws that are passed in states. We have one state that has a civil union law; there may be others.

NORRIS: So you don't support gay marriage?

Rep. GEPHARDT: I do not.

NORRIS: Congressman, you got some good news this week out of Iowa. The Des Moines Register poll places you at the front of the pack in that state. I wonder if you face a bit of a perception problem there. We've read in the press some statements from some of your staff members who've said, 'If you don't take Iowa, the campaign is all but dead.' So you're in a position where if you win Iowa, some might say, 'Well, you know, we expected him to win Iowa. He won Iowa last time he ran.'

Rep. GEPHARDT: Right. That's called the no-win strategy.

NORRIS: But if you lose Iowa, you know, the people will already being writing your political obituary. So how do you combat that perception?

Rep. GEPHARDT: Well, let me tell you how I think this is going to work. We're going to win Iowa, and we're going to get credit for winning Iowa. This is...

NORRIS: But will you get momentum?

Rep. GEPHARDT: We will. You know, I've been behind in Iowa for the last probably six months. Howard Dean was winning Iowa. He's gotten all the attention as the front-runner, as the one who's winning Iowa and New Hampshire. Well, nothing's been done. You can't make any assumptions until the people vote. Polls are polls, but there's only one poll that counts. That's the one on January 19th. That's the one I'm going to win. And it will give us momentum, it will affect the outcome in New Hampshire, it will help us in New Hampshire and it will help us in all the states that come thereafter.

NORRIS: Now I must ask you what will happen if you don't get results in Iowa. Write for us the headline on January 20th if you don't take Iowa.

Rep. GEPHARDT: That's an iffy question that I don't contemplate.

NORRIS: Don't even allow yourself to think like that?

Rep. GEPHARDT: It isn't going to happen. It isn't worth talking about. It's not going to happen. I'm going to win Iowa.

NORRIS: Congressman Gephardt, thanks so much for speaking with us.

Rep. GEPHARDT: Thank you.

NORRIS: Congressman Richard Gephardt of Missouri is a Democratic candidate for the presidential nomination. We spoke with him in his campaign office in downtown Washington.

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