MSNBC Hardball-Transcript

Interview

GREGORY: CBS has fired Don Imus one day after MSNBC has done the same. He is off the air.

Joining us now are two members of the Congressional Black Caucus, Maryland congressman Elijah Cummings and the caucus‘s chairwoman, Michigan congresswoman Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick. Congresswoman Kilpatrick, I heard you on Reverend Sharpton‘s show earlier this week with Don Imus and your exchange. What is your reaction today? And I‘ll ask you pointedly, does the sentence fit the crime in this case?

REP. CAROLYN CHEEKS KILPATRICK (D-MI), CONGRESSIONAL BLACK CAUCUS

CHAIR: You know, I‘m honored today to be in New York, and earlier this morning met with both the president and the senior staff at NBC and at CBS. It‘s an awesome responsibility. We had wonderful meetings—the president of NOW, National Organization for Women, as well National Organization for Women (ph) organizations (ph), as well as Marc Morial from the Urban League. It was a cross-section. It was a good meeting.

And this is bigger than Imus. I‘m obviously delighted that he‘s been fired. I said early on he should be fired. Now we have to say the culture and talk about the culture of our communications media system in America. Do we want to build American strong families, or do we want to tear them apart? I think the acts and the steps—and I want to commend both presidents for taking that action. That was the right step to take. And...

GREGORY: But Congressman...

(CROSSTALK)

GREGORY: Can I just interject for a moment? I just want to hear on this specific case—I want to hear you articulate why you think this result is the just result.

KILPATRICK: This is the just result because this gentleman—and I have to call him a gentleman—did what was wrong. There are millions of young people, women particularly, African-Americans specifically, who marvel at who we are, who work hard every day, who sacrifice to go to Rutgers University and other universities around this country, who stay there, who achieve excellence in academics. And then to find a young man who just look out on the floor and call them something—and again, it wasn‘t just those words. They had a conversation for three or four minutes with very derogatory images and messages about a particular group of people.

We also had in our group this morning one of the psychiatrists from Rutgers University, and she talked about the damaging effect it still does yet today. You saw the women. They‘re smart. They‘re intelligent. They‘re scholastic. They‘re prodigies. They‘re still damaged. And one said she‘ll be damaged for the rest of her life.

I don‘t think you understand the far-reaching impact of the remarks. It wasn‘t just something from the hip. It was researched. Someone gave him that. And incidentally, it was absolutely the totally wrong thing to say for America at a time when we‘re fragile, we‘re at war, people are losing their jobs, children are worried about their financial aid, if they can go to school...

GREGORY: Right.

KILPATRICK: Wrong time, wrong message, and he got what he deserved.

GREGORY: OK, Congresswoman, I just want to be clear, I‘m not making a judgment about the remarks or their impact, but I‘m questioning you and others about just what you think about the outcome.

And let me turn now to Congressman Cummings. In this case, your reaction, and do you think this fit the crime?

REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D-MD), CONGRESSIONAL BLACK CAUCUS: No doubt about it, it fit the crime. You got to keep in mind—and I agree with my chairlady, Ms. Kilpatrick—we had a situation here where African-American women and others were balancing a sports career at a college, and a very good one at that, very good college, with academics. I don‘t know how many people have ever tried to do it. It‘s very, very difficult. And these are young ladies that are probably going to go on to graduate from school and become professionals in our society.

And at a moment when they were in the process of celebrating, celebrating the fact that they had gotten to the Final Four, the Final Two, here comes an elderly gentleman, who comes along and ruins their moment. Anybody who‘s a parent—I‘m a parent of two daughters—I can tell you, that is what hurts. I mean, Imus had made comments about other people who were adults that could fend for themselves. But the fact is that these were our children, who, as Ms. Kilpatrick said, were giving it their very, very best, and that‘s the last thing you want to see.

Now, let me tell you something. I really—I agree that this is so much bigger than this. And I‘m sure that the—when I hear about the presidents of CBS and NBC doing what they have done, I hope they‘ll go even further than that. I don‘t want it to end here. I want to make sure that people like Tim Russert has more African-Americans and minorities on his programs. I want to make sure that there are internships for folks who want to come into the studios because, let me tell you, I think that if Imus had wonderful young ladies like this around him in his studio, perhaps working with him, interning or whatever, I don‘t think he would have made those kind of statements because he would have been more sensitive.

And we do have to do—as Ms. Kilpatrick said, we‘ve got to find a way to bring our society together. And we cannot just let this just sort of go away, as Imus may go off into the sunset. I hope he doesn‘t go into the sunset. I hope he finds a way to—just as he has raised money and wonderfully for children with cancer, I hope that he‘ll raise money for scholarships for young people because Ms. Kilpatrick will tell you that we have young brilliant kids in our communities that are sitting home or doing some job because they don‘t have the money to go to college.

GREGORY: Congresswoman...

CUMMINGS: I say to Imus, Help them.

GREGORY: Let me ask you, Congresswoman, you appeared, as I mentioned, on Reverend Sharpton‘s program earlier in the week with Don Imus. And there is no debate about the hideousness of his remark. How did you find him? Did you think his remorse was genuine, or did you find it forced?

KILPATRICK: Unfortunately, I believe the gentleman did not get the impact of what he said and how it related to the world, and particularly to America. After talking to him—and I‘ve got friends who know him and say he‘s a nice gentleman, he donates, he gives his time, he and his wife. And we thank him for that. I don‘t think he gets it. He won‘t understand, for some reason, and I hope he‘ll take this time—and I‘d be happy to work with him, and so will members of the Congressional Black Caucus—to bring him around so that we talk about how we build a stronger family, how we make access to higher education more affordable, and those kinds of things.

So I don‘t think he was malicious at all. I think he said what he said, not thinking what he was thinking, or whatever he was thinking, and God only knows that. So you know, I don‘t think it was malicious. And I did talk to him for a few minutes on Reverend Sharpton‘s show, and it was a good exchange, but I left there just knowing in my heart that he didn‘t understand the impact of what he had done.

I think after the team and the coaches and the president—and by the way, we, the members of the Congressional Black Caucus and Speaker of the House, are having the president, the team, the coaches in to Washington, D.C., in the next 10 days. We‘re also going to have a hearing. This is the 35th year of Title 9, which is federal legislation that began the equal opportunity for women in sports. And we‘re inviting the Rutgers psychiatrist, we‘re inviting the president of NOW and a couple others to talk about this so that this is the beginning and not the end.

And when we met with the two presidents today—and I feel confident that as they told us, they‘re going to work with us, that we are going to see a change in their culture. We told that they were the leaders, they were the leaders at this time of our lives, at this time in history, and they can move the country forward by using a multi-cultural staff both in front of the camera and beyond, that they would use us as a resource.

We in the caucus have five members who are chairpersons of major committees. We have 17 members who are subcommittee chairs in everything from finance to economics...

GREGORY: Right.

KILPATRICK: ... to alternative energy. And I believe, in talking to them this morning, and particularly after we‘ve seen the second action taken, you‘re going to see a different movement. Again, I commend both CBS and NBC.

GREGORY: Congressman, just a final question here, and a quick comment. Don Imus has accused some in the African-American community, particularly Civil Rights leaders, yourselves included, who have spoken to the networks and spoken out on this issue—accused them of hypocrisy. And one of the things he cites, for instance, because it‘s topical, is the outcome of the Duke lacrosse rape case. And is there condemnation for this young woman, this young African-American woman who made a case against these young white men that was unfounded, in the end? And that‘s what the courts ruled. Do you speak out in that case, as well?

CUMMINGS: I think that—I think that whenever there is injustice anywhere, it is horrible. As a lawyer, one who has gone into many, many courtrooms throughout the state of Maryland, I can tell you I think that what happened there was clearly unfair. And I think it came out and it came out in the wash.

But—and I don‘t—but understand, here we have a situation where, again, Mr. Imus has said a lot of things. But keep in mind, he has come forth and he‘s apologized. Again, Ms. Kilpatrick has heard the apology. She questions his sincerity. But the fact still remains that we have now got to take this situation and make something better of it. And one of the things that we spend a lot of time in the caucus doing is trying to take negative situations, look at them for what they are, and then make things better as a result of them. And I think that‘s exactly what is going to happen, particularly with the leadership of Ms. Kilpatrick and the members of the Congressional Black Caucus and many others.

GREGORY: We are going to leave it there for now, but I can tell you, on this network, this is a conversation that will continue. Thank you to Congressman Elijah Cummings and Congresswoman Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick.

KILPATRICK: Thank you.

CUMMINGS: Thank you.

Source