MSNBC Tucker-Transcript
CARLSON: That was President Bush earlier today patting his administration on the back for its apparent success in denuking the rogue lunatic dictator of North Korea, Kim Jong-Il, but can we trust a man who once claimed to have shot 38 under par the very first time he played golf? Here with his insight is the ranking member on the subcommittee on International Terrorism and Non-Proliferation, Republican Congressman from California Ed Royce. Congressman, thanks for coming on.
REP. ED ROYCE (D), CALIFORNIA: Thank you Tucker.
CARLSON: North Korea is a country that has resisted many efforts over the years to get it to disarm in one way or another. They cheated the Soviets basically in the 1980s. Of course they famously hood-winked the Clinton administration. Why do we think theyll abide by this?
ROYCE: Well, I am skeptical and they are untrustworthy, but the United States has figured out a new strategy here. And it what it has to do is to take their banking system, which is run through Macao, China, and we created a run on that bank, we basically froze their assets by pointing out they were counterfeiting 100 dollar bills.
At the same time, we put pressure on China to cut off the energy, pressure on South Korea to cut off the rice, and pressure on Russia to cut off the fertilizer. So now here we are a few months out and Kim Jong-Il cant pay his generals and he is getting desperate. And so right now we have a promise of a negotiation. We dont have a deal yet, but we have a promise of a deal.
Our goal here is to use the Libya model, the model that was successful with Moammar Qadhafi, and bring that kind of pressure and threats, in order to get compliance.
CARLSON: Why would John Bolton, who is obviously a former high ranking member of the administration, someone who worked on the question of North Korea for many years, he was held up by the president himself as a man of great judgment, he described this deal yesterday, he said its a bad disappointing deal, and the best thing you can say about it is it will probably fall apart. Why would he say that?
ROYCE: Well, as I say, Im skeptical about the deal, and Im the one who raised the question with former Ambassador Bolton and he laid out exactly why it is problematic to believe that Kim Jong-Il will follow throw. What Im arguing is that the only way to make sure he does is to keep on the pressure, is to cut off the flow of funds of hard currency that go into that regime, and to continue to keep the pressure on other countries in the region, because thats the only thing thats going to get their attention.
Ultimately, I think the answer, as weve discussed before Tucker, is simply to shut down their economy and implode that regime by cutting off their sources of illicit funds, that come through counterfeiting and drugs, and everything else.
CARLSON: Counter-fitting cigarettes in addition to selling methamphetamine and 100 dollar bills, as you know. The president today said that this deal will require the North Koreans, within 60 days, to shut down their primary nuclear facilities. Does that mean their secondary and tertiary facilities can remain open? What does that mean primary? Its kind of
ROYCE: That means in 60 days the IAEA, the inspectors go in and look at the Yongbyon, at the main facility there, but subsequently, the administration is saying, there are other potential facilities that need to be inspected and thats to be negotiated down the road. Again, this is all problematic, but as along as we keep the pressure on, and they dont have the hard currency to develop their nuclear program, which we can cut off.
If they cant pay their generals and cant do their research and development, we can put the pressure on to freeze it. My hope is that we keep the backbone to keep the pressure on and dont start giving in and dont start giving them the wherewithal slip out of the noose.
CARLSON: Very quickly, congressman, do you have a moral problem with this, Negotiating with a madman like Kim Jong-Il. President Bush, for the first couple years of the administration, implied that we wouldnt even talk to people this evil, and yet were negotiating with him now. Does that bother you?
ROYCE: Well Tucker, you know my position, in terms of how I think that the regime should be brought down, but given the fact that the administration has embarked now on an approach which is applying the types of tactics that I wanted to see deployed against the regime, if they negotiate at the same time, and can get to that goal, I am going to give them that breathing room, as long as they continue to keep the pressure up. We will have a hearing in two weeks where we will be looking in greater detail at the arrangements that are being made, to make certain that they hold up.
CARLSON: Good for you, Congressman Ed Royce of California. Thanks a lot congressman.
ROYCE: Tucker, thank you.
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