CNBC The News with Brian Williams - Transcript

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SHOW: The News with Brian Williams (7:00 PM ET) - CNBC

HEADLINE: Senator Chuck Hagel's views on current foreign policy in Iraq

ANCHORS: JOHN SEIGENTHALER

BODY:
JOHN SEIGENTHALER, anchor:

Nebraska Republican Chuck Hagel has not been shy about questioning the administration's Iraq policy. Senator Hagel is a member of both the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and the Select Committee on Intelligence, and he joins us exclusively tonight from Washington.

Senator Hagel, welcome.

Senator CHUCK HAGEL (Republican, Nebraska): Thank you, John.

SEIGENTHALER: We heard there about a shift in tactics when it comes to weapons of mass destruction, but based on speech you made today, I get the impression that you think that maybe there should be a shift in our foreign policy when it comes to the war on terror. Could you explain?

Sen. HAGEL: Well, our war on terror is not just about a military challenge or dynamic, it is far more inclusive and more complete. It's going to require seamless networks of intelligence gathering and sharing, working with allies. It's going to take humanitarian efforts, diplomatic efforts, focusing out on others trying to win the hearts and minds of the people that we are trying to help, as well as special operations and counterinsurgency war in a guerrilla war. All the things you just talked about. It's the completeness of all of this. Trade is a dynamic. But right now we are where we are. And we are in a very difficult spot.

SEIGENTHALER: So tho-those things aren't happening right now?

Sen. HAGEL: No, they're not. But for the future, what we are going to have to do here is widen our-our frame of reference, widen our lens, because we will never win a war on terrorism with just the military. We're finding that out. We certainly found that out in Vietnam. But now we must protect our interests because the-the opportunities that we have to enlist the support of the Iraqi people is limited. And the sooner we can bring the Iraqis into a position where they can govern themselves, defend themselves-and I think that means standing up a lot of the old Iraqi army-re-enlist them in to this effort, is part of this, and the sooner we can do that, then the sooner we get out and the better opportunities there are for the Iraqi people to not just govern themselves but have a future for themselves.

SEIGENTHALER: So-so tracking down the terrorists, all around the world, killing them, taking them out, isn't enough, isn't going to solve the problem?

Sen. HAGEL: No, it's not going to because you can never kill enough terrorists. We're finding that out in Iraq. Even Secretary Rumsfeld's memo that was leaked last week talked about that-he talked about that. And he talked about it in very graphic detail. I think Secretary Rumsfeld was right. I think he's right to question that. That is not the way you win a long-term war against terrorists. The way you do that is-is working through institutions and-and multilateral facilities and coalitions of common interest and developing a common interest structure that reaches down where the people are, so that the people know that their lives are enhanced and their lives are better because of what we're doing.

SEIGENTHALER: That's not necessarily what we heard from the president of the United States yesterday.

Sen. HAGEL: Well, the president was in a tough spot yesterday. He has to sustain public opinion in support of our efforts. The fact is we cannot lose here. We have too much at stake, not just short-term, but long-term. Our word, our confidence level, the trust that people have around the world in us, as is in Afghanistan, the Middle East. So the president's trying to rally that sustained effort, but at the same time the president must be honest with the American people in assessing risk and cost, not just short-term, but for the long-term.

SEIGENTHALER: Do you think he's been honest with the American people?

Sen. HAGEL: Well, I think the president has been honest. Listen, this is the first president that's dealt with anything quite like this, this shock two years ago that he inherited. He's working his way through it. We all are working our way through it. I've had differences with how we went in to Iraq with the president. Many of us warned about these problems that we're dealing with now. I don't think we planned well. But the fact is that debate is in the past. We have got to move forward and win, and the president is in a tough spot. He needs to enlist the support of the Congress; we need to be his partner. He should have done that two years ago, he should have done that a year ago. But again, it's not too late. And we don't have a lot of options here.

SEIGENTHALER: So you're really sending the president a message here, aren't you?

Sen. HAGEL: Well, I've-I've tried to be constructive, but my job is not to sit like a potted plant. Too many of us do that. Certainly during Vietnam for 11 bloody years, too many congressmen and senators sat on the sidelines and didn't ask the tough questions. I also owe the president and this country some solutions, some help in solving the problem. That's what we're trying to do.

SEIGENTHALER: Senator Chuck Hagel, it's always good to talk with you.

Sen. HAGEL: Thanks, John.

SEIGENTHALER: Thanks for taking the time to talk with us tonight.

Sen. HAGEL: Thank you.