Senate Judiciary Committee Holds Hearing on Gun Violence

FDCH TRANSCRIPTS
Congressional Hearings
May 13, 2003
Senate Judiciary Committee Holds Hearing on Gun Violence

HATCH:

Good morning. Welcome to this very important committee hearing to examine Project Safe Neighborhoods, President Bush's gun violence reduction initiative.

The problem of gun violence is a national tragedy which requires careful analysis and serious attention. Every year in this country, too many loved ones and family members are killed by criminals with guns. In 2001, criminals used guns to commit over one-third of a million violent crimes, including 63 percent of all homicides, resulting in over 10,000 deaths.

For every fatal shooting that occurs, there are roughly three non-fatal shootings. Indeed, even those who dedicate their lives to the protection of America's citizens are tragically the victims of gun crime.

In 2001, 47 of the 51 American law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty died from gunshot wounds. This last fact should not got unnoticed this week as thousands of law enforcement officers from across the country gather here at the National Law Enforcement Memorial to pay tribute to all of the fallen officers. We owe an extra effort to our nation's police officers, and all of our fellow citizens, to make sure that those who illegally possess firearms are prosecuted and punished.

These numbers are dramatic and represent much more than cold figures. They underscore the terrible tragedies felt by countless family members, children, fathers, mothers, relatives, and friends in communities across our country. Criminals with guns who shoot and kill are nothing less than domestic terrorists. They terrorize and attack law-abiding members of their communities, and for that they deserve stiff and severe punishment.

While pointing out the nature and extent of this problem, these numbers also are a call to action. Law-abiding citizens want swift and certain justice for gun criminals in their communities.

Project Safe Neighborhoods is the Bush administration's gun violence reduction initiative which is being run by the Justice Department. Project Safe Neighborhoods focuses law enforcement efforts against criminals who illegally use guns. More than 70 percent of all gun crimes are committed by repeat offenders, criminals who have skirted the courts and flaunted the law to prey on citizens and communities again and again.

President Bush has committed his administration to this initiative in order to protect citizens and the rule of law. He has stated his commitment simply, clearly, and with honesty, quote, "If you use a gun illegally, you will do hard time," unquote. Attorney General Ashcroft has implemented the president's directive by requiring each United States Attorney to develop and implement a program to address gun crime and gun violence in their respective districts.

The concept behind Project Safe Neighborhoods is simple: organize and bring together prosecutors, federal, state and local law enforcement, and the community to design and implement a coordinated and strategic approach to catch gun criminals, to deter criminals from carrying or using guns, and to build community support among law- abiding citizens who are sick and tired of being terrorized by violent, gun-toting criminals who wreck havoc in their neighborhoods.

The administration has allocated significant resources to Project Safe Neighborhoods, more than $500 million to this initiative thus far, and they hope ultimately to devote more than $900 million to this effort. Project Safe Neighborhoods has added 207 new federal prosecutors and nearly 600 new state and local prosecutors nationwide to focus on gun criminals.

After almost two years, Project Safe Neighborhoods is showing significant tangible successes. The numbers speak for themselves. This can be seen on the chart. You'll notice a dramatic increase in gun crime enforcement under Project Safe Neighborhoods. The number of defendants charged with federal firearms violations has increased significantly in the last two years, notably after the start of the PSN initiative.

As the numbers show, since this administration implemented Project Safe Neighborhoods in May, 2001, federal gun crime prosecutions have increased by over 40 percent, from a total of 8,054 for fiscal year 2001 to a projected 11,686 for fiscal year 2003. The conviction rate in these cases is nearly 90 percent.

More than half of these gun criminals were sentenced to more than five years in a federal prison. In addition to the rise in federal prosecutions, state and local prosecutors have boosted their efforts as well, with the addition of nearly 600 prosecutors funded through Project Safe Neighborhoods.

While much has been accomplished, there is still much more to do to rid this country of scourge of gun violence. I am interested in hearing how the PSN program is working and what additional steps are needed to make sure that we do all that is necessary to protect our communities from violent, gun-toting criminals.

So I look forward to hearing from each of our witnesses today about this important initiative and reading their statements, and we'll go from there. We'll turn to Senator Craig, who's going to chair this hearing, and take his statement at this time.

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HATCH:

Thank you, Mr. Warner.

Mr. Warner is the United States Attorney from the District of Utah. We're going to turn to Mr. Paul McNulty, who is the United States Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia. Then we'll go to the Honorable Todd P. Graves, who is the United States Attorney for the Western District of Missouri, and then finally to the Honorable Patrick Meehan, United States Attorney for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania.

We're really honored to have all of you U.S. Attorneys here. You do terrific work, often unheralded, and without your efforts, we just wouldn't be as well off today in this country as we are and protected from criminal activity. So we really appreciate all the work you do.

So, Paul, it's nice to welcome you back. You spent a lot of years on Capitol Hill. I hope you're enjoying your new job.

MCNULTY:

I really am, but (OFF-MIKE). Thank you. It's a real pleasure to have the opportunity...

HATCH:

Excuse me. I've got to leave and go to another meeting, so Senator Craig is going to conduct the rest of the hearing. We're just happy that he's willing to do that, and we appreciate it. This is a very important hearing, and we think it's time the public really understands what all of you are doing. So we appreciate all you're doing, and I appreciate Senator Craig.

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HATCH:

Well, I hadn't thought of that, but I certainly was aware of law enforcement communities of Idaho participating with you and participating with Utah in some of the coordinated efforts that were underway for the Olympics. It was obviously a very high profile Olympics in a post-9/11 environment.

So, that makes some additional sense, certainly.

Thank you.

Chief, your testimony references me to an obvious frustration you had on the streets of Newport News and the inability to get things done and now you sense that things are happening. I am saying this in reference to what Professor Ludwig said about—I am a little frustrated about rounding them up, but not locking them up or prosecuting them or carrying it through. Part of the frustration I have always heard from the law enforcement community is that revolving door out there of putting violence back on the street and ultimately having to take it off again.

What I am hearing from you, I think, and you mentioned it and the work that is getting done and the ability to move ahead with a higher level of extraction, if you will, from the streets of violent criminals in your experience under this program. Could you reference that a little more and possibly explain what you meant about the uniqueness that this is offering you and the task force that is involved?

MOOK:

Yes, sir.

The particular frustration we experienced was using the state criminal justice system alone. There is no fear from the criminals of the state systems. It is not quite a revolving door, but the penalties and the way it is configured is much less.

HATCH:

It's a slower door.

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HATCH:

That's interesting testimony dovetailed with what you have mentioned, Mr. Totaro. You pointed out, I think, in your testimony the inadequacy of state sentencing provisions, hence, in the past, many felons considered a few months in prison simply a cost of doing business.

That's a phenomenal statement, but I suspect for those who are in the business, that is a reality, at least, to their observation or lifestyle. I know you touched on in your testimony, but I'd like you to describe in detail whether felons are becoming aware of the consequence of carrying a firearm under what is now going on in Pennsylvania and in light of this cooperative effort and sentencing through federal law versus state.

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HATCH:

Excellent.

Professor Ludwig, I am curious of some of your observations and I am going to go—I hope we have available and if we don't, some of your studies. I am curious to read some of your findings or your observations in relation to Project Exile and your reaction to it.

Let me ask this question of you. I make the general assumption that when there is a spike in crime, that there is a public reaction to that and therefore, a reaction in the law enforcement community that usually follows.

And so, as that occurs, while Project Exile was implemented and used in the Richmond area and you mentioned other areas have crime and it declined, my guess is and I may guess wrong. You can respond, because you studied it. There were other kinds of efforts underway in response to that spike in crime. If that is true, was there an effort to evaluate the pieces of the process.

Here we had in Richmond the use of the federal firearms laws, the sorting out, if you will, and trying to identify with those individual actions that could be taken into federal court versus state court, the frustration we've heard because Newport News is down the road a bit and is subject to the same laws, at least from the state level.

In our examination and studies, was there a comparative attempt to draw between what was used and implemented or are you suggesting this was simply a cultural phenomenon that occurred, a spike in the decline.

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HATCH:

In your observation of what is now underway, across this country with the community effort and the diversity within it and the resources being applied, do you believe, based on your experience and your studies that this is an effective use of public resources?

LUDWIG:

I think that allocation of resources to Project Safe Neighborhoods will have some effect in reducing homicide in the United States. In my opinion, the effect will be much more modest than most people believe based on common wisdom about Richmond.

In my judgment, I think the impact of the Project Safe Neighborhoods spending could be enhanced by reallocating some of those resources from a focus on prosecution and extending—making more severe the prison penalties associated with gun violation, instead, doing more to enhance the certainty or probability that gun violators are apprehended, prosecuted and imprisoned. And one way to do that is through allocating more resources to targeted police patrols that focus on getting guns and the people who carry guns illegally off the street.

HATCH:

I'm a bit confused by that answer. I understand what you are saying. I understand the premise of what you are saying, but how do you keep them off the street?

Once you have taken them off the street, one of the great problems we have is this, if you will, professional seasoned, hardened criminal who accelerates his or her action to the point of using a firearm in the commission of a crime, ultimately killing someone and of course, then a felon and that revolving door of state versus federal use or application of the law and the severity of the penalty.

Visit with me a bit about that.

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HATCH:

Well, OK. That's an interesting statistic and observation. My guess is that, and I don't have time to pursue this further today, that there are some out here and some who have been on the panel who disagree with that observation.

Time is going to tell, because there are very aggressive efforts underway across this country now with this program and I think I agree with you, Professor. The opportunity to observe, to look at where we are headed and its impact over an extended period of time is probably more likely today than it has been in the past. So, we'll probably have you back in times to come to draw conclusions from a greater and more extended body of information as we proceed down this path.

Gentlemen, thank you very much for your time before the committee and the testimony you've offered today. Let me also ask unanimous consent that the testimony or statements of the ranking member, Senator Pat Leahy, become a part of our committee record, along with Senator—another member of the committee, Senator Joe Biden. So, they will become part of committee and with that, the committee will stand adjourned.

Again, thank you all very much.

Oh, and I must announce that the record will stay open for a period of a week for any additional information or questions that might come.

Thank you all.