Senate Governmental Affairs Committee Holds Hearing on Homeland Security Challenges

CARPER:

    Thank you, Madame Chair. And I am delighted to be with you as always.

    I like that, a couple of cards short. That's pretty good. I used to say that to him when he was governor of Pennsylvania, a couple of cards short, my friend. I won't tell you what he said in response.

    I'm delighted to be here with you. And the legislation that you will be introducing later today, I believe I get to have the pleasure of being your lead -- your token Democrat.

COLLINS:

    The lead and most important co-sponsor. And I thank you for that.

CARPER:

    Pleased to be a part of your team again.

    To our witnesses, thanks for joining us and welcome. Especially pleased Chief Jeff Horvath who is here from Dover. And sitting back here on our right, the audience's left, is the mayor of Dover, Jim Hutchison, who we affectionately call "Hutch" who knows a thing or two about policing himself having been a police chief in his youth, which wasn't too long ago.

    Hutch, it's great to have you here.

    I have a longer statement. I'd like to ask unanimous consent to be entered into the record.

COLLINS:

    Without objection.

CARPER:

    And I'd to just give this shorter statement. And I'll be mercifully brief for our witnesses so we can hear what you have to say.

    I want to, again, welcome Chief Horvath today and to ask you to extend to the men and women you lead at the Dover Police Department, give them our very best.

    I -- Dover is our capital city. Some people say it's the third largest city in Delaware. I don't know. Dover and Newark, which is the host of -- home of the University of Delaware -- are about the same size. Our largest city is Wilmington, which only has about 75,000 people.

    So we are not a place with a whole large population. We've got a lot of smaller towns. And Dover's right in the middle of our state and is a really neat, really neat place.

    Chief Horvath brings a tremendous amount of real world experience that, I think, can be invaluable as this committee considers the federal government's relationship to first responders.

    And Chief, we're glad you're here and grateful for the work that you and your men and women do every day for -- not just the people of Dover, but really for our state and all the folks who visit our state capital.

    When this committee worked last year under the previous chairman, what was his name?

COLLINS:

    The movie star.

CARPER:

    Lieberman -- that was it. Lieberman. The movie star. Joe Lieberman.

    We created the Department of Homeland Security. And I think all of my colleagues hoped that what we were setting up would help the federal government to be better able to prevent and to respond to terrorist attacks.

    As of March 1, last month, we have in place the skeleton of an organization that should be able to pull together under one roof information on threats and vulnerabilities and to use that information to improve security and to prepare first responders, like those that are arrayed before us today.

    I look forward to working with my old colleague, Governor Ridge, now Secretary Ridge, and all of our colleagues here on this committee to making sure that the Department of Homeland Security works the way it was meant to work.

    But no matter how well Secretary Ridge does his work on the federal level, we will not be much safer than we were on September 10, 2001 unless our first responders are better prepared to do their work -- your work on the local level. And while homeland security should certainly be a shared priority, it's vitally important that the federal government does its part to provide each state with enough first responder aid to ensure that its citizens are adequately protected.

    I'd like to see the federal government's financial commitment to homeland security increase overall. But as the senator from the first state, from Delaware, I'd especially like to see us fulfill our obligation to less populous states.

    I understand the -- how many people live in Maine these days? We have about 800,000.

COLLINS:

    1.2 million. Was that a quiz just to see if I knew my state well?

CARPER:

    It was a quiz.

    (LAUGHTER)

    I understand the need to give larger states, especially those with densely populated urban areas enough money to protect their larger populations. But no state, no state, including our states should be less safe than our neighbors because we happen to have a smaller population.

    The federal government should be working to bring every state and locality to the point where they are capable of responding effectively to any potential threat. And by distributing the responder aid to states based largely on population, however, I fear that we fail to do just that.

    The current formula for distributing first responder aid ignores the fact that Delaware, small in population though it is, is located in the northeast corridor between New York and Washington.

CARPER:

    It ignores the fact that Delaware is home to a major port, to a major oil refinery, to a number of chemical plants, and that every day scores of ships make their way up and down the Delaware River, which is part of Delaware, by the way, and a lot of them come into the Port of Wilmington.

    We have scores of trains that ply their way up and down the northeast corridor, trucks that make their way throughout the I-95 to destinations up and down the East Coast. And the formula that's in the current law also ignores the fact that Chief Horvath here, and the officers that he leads, work every day to protect a major asset for our country and that's the Dover Air Force Base, a facility that's playing a crucial role in the war in Iraq as we help provide part of the air bridge between the United States and the Middle East.

    I look forward, Madame Chair, to working with you, and especially am pleased with the new legislation that you'll be introducing.

    Governors used to like to get federal money, we also like to get that federal money with a reasonable amount of flexibility to use it in ways that make sense for our states.

    And just as Maine is different from Delaware is different from Arizona, we want to make sure that the monies that come to our first responders come in way -- and to our states -- come in a way that we can use those dollars most effectively and appreciate the differences that different demands and challenges that each of our states represent.

    So Madame Chair, delighted that we're having this hearing. Honored to be with you and pleased especially with our friends that are before us and especially the chief from Dover.

    Welcome. Thank you.

CARPER:

    Thanks, Madam Chair.

    I have some specific questions I want to ask a bit later of Chief Horvath. It sort of relates to Dover Air Force Base and the interrelationship that you have between the folks that are providing the security at the base and how that affects your responsibilities and those of your department.

    Before I do that, let me ask a more general, broader question. A lot of times, when we have a hearing like this, it's helpful to me, and I hope to our committee members, to hear where you agree. And sometimes we hear different messages from different parts of the country. But it would be- very helpful to know the major points as you listen to the testimonies of your colleagues at the desk.

    Where do you agree in terms of what steps we should be taking, the Congress, legislative and executive branches? Where do you see the consensus and major priority points of agreement?

    And, Chief Bowers, Captain Bowers, we have a beach in Delaware named after you -- Bowers Beach.

    (LAUGHTER)

    It is the host of -- home of the Heartbreak Hotel, a legendary place.

    (LAUGHTER)

    If you ever come to Delaware, visit your beach.

BOWERS:

    I will.

CARPER:

    Go to the Heartbreak Hotel.

    But major areas that you agree, in terms of how they relate to an action agenda for us.

HORVATH:

    Well, the first has got to be that the money is not making it to the local level. That's foremost.

    I think we also agree that the process needs to be streamlined, and Chief Chitwood just hit it right on the nail. We need to streamline that process so that the need can be articulated and funded.

    And finally, I think another major area that we all agree is that if we can get those things done, then the first responders at the local level will have the equipment, the training and the personnel that they need to respond to these threats in a coordinated fashion. That's also key -- that it be coordinated.

CARPER:

    Thank you. Is it Plaugher?

PLAUGHER:

    Yes, sir.

CARPER:

    Well, learn that name before this hearing is over.

    (LAUGHTER)

PLAUGER:

    Thank you, sir.

    I think the captain is absolutely on target. When we go through the state process, what comes out at the end was not what was intended, oftentimes, and it needs to be, as the chief at the end of the table was talking about earlier, it needs to be a straight, direct to the local governments where -- that's where the protection is going to occur. That's where the response is going to occur.

    The states, however, have needs. And I cannot dismiss that. We work in a nation that is united of states, and the states have a key role in the process, as I'm sure you're very, very aware.

    And so I'm not trying to dismiss the absolute needs of the various states and the state resources, and the state coordination effort that's absolutely critical in homeland security.

    But, for the federal government, through its programs to tie the hands of the state officials -- when I ask the state coordinators, "How come this system is the way it is?" they say, "We have no option. This is the mandate, this is the program and if you want the little bit that comes out the end, you've got to do X, Y and Z."

    And so, again, Senator, there's no flexibility in the program. And the poor state coordinators, they feel very frustrated.

    As a matter of fact, yesterday, I received a letter from the Homeland -- or, excuse me, the Commonwealth security coordinator, former Lieutenant Governor John Hager, sent a letter back to the Northern Virginia Regional Planning
Commission -- it's now called the Northern Virginia Commission -- that is trying to undertake a regional effort because of the complexities of the D.C. region, the three states' involvement and that sort of thing. We prefer to use a regional effort.

    And we had requested that our federal funds come to a regional program for preparedness. We're actually trying to create which is called a system called a MIST, which is a Mobile Incident Support Team, to bolster the communities' resources from the three-to-six- hour, three-to-12-hour response window. Because most local governments can do two to three hours. After that, they need additional resources, very specific resources for a catastrophic incident.

    And so, we've requested this MIST, and we wanted to do it regionally. The bottom line of the letter came back from the former lieutenant governor was, "We don't have that latitude; we don't have flexibility."

    And so, again, we feel like we're constrained. You ask us to come up with solutions. We come up with solutions. We think they're straightforward and make good sense for our particular needs, but the program doesn't allow it.

    So, again, frustrations prevail.

CARPER:

    All right, thank you.

    Chief Horvath?

HORVATH:

    I agree. There's -- I agree with what both of them have said.

    I think some of the money from the federal government has to be earmarked to come directly to the agency. I also agree with what the chief just said -- some of it has to go to the state.

    I tried to say that in my statement, where the money is going to DEMA, and it's going to be spread out equally among the police departments. And I think that's a good thing, the way that's being used, because we'll all be on the same page, when we are responding to these incidents.

HORVATH:

    I also agree that the money has to be flexible in how it can be spent. But we also have to justify how we spend it; we have to be held accountable. And, one of the big things, I think, the money has to get to us quicker. It's -- I mean, September 11th was 2001, and my department, his department -- we haven't received any money. And we're getting ready to come up on September of 2003.

CARPER:

    Two wars will have intervened.

HORVATH:

    Excuse me?

CARPER:

    Two wars will have occurred during the time that, from those events of September 11th.

    All right, thank you.

HORVATH:

    I agree. I mean, it's funny. I have not had the opportunity to even speak to these gentlemen, and it's like we each wrote a piece of what we were going to write. So the commonality's across the board.

    I just would emphasize once again that the federal government, through the Department of Justice and their programs have already established, in my opinion, from a law enforcement perspective, a way to get the monies to the local departments across the country and responsibility for spending those monies in a way that protects each community.

    It's already -- you don't have to rewrite the process. It's here. It's there. And I think that if that would continue as we face a new world of terrorism, I believe that that will work that way. I really do.

CARPER:

    Thanks. Madam, Chair, will there be a second round of questions?

COLLINS:

    Yes, there will be.

CARPER:

    I'll yield back. Thanks very much.

CARPER:

    Thank you, Madam Chairman.

    To my colleague, Senator Pryor, he was asking questions earlier about the ability of various first responders to communicate with one another by radio. When I was governor, we funded an 800-megahertz program that enables us to have between firefighters, volunteer and paid firefighters, between police units, state and local police units, and also with paramedics and other first-time responders.

    One of the questions you asked was the ability of the relevant federal agencies to participate in that. And Brian Bushweller, who's sitting to the right of Dover mayor Jim Hutchison, is the secretary of public safety. And he was good enough to come up here to the dias and to remind me that a number of federal agencies who work full-time in Delaware, including the FBI and others, do have the access to the 800- megahertz, they do have their radios and participate as full partners in that.

CARPER:

    I understand when I was out of the room meeting in the next room here with some folks from our chemical industry in Delaware who are very much involved in education, raising science to education standards in our schools, and I apologize for sort of being in and out, but it's important for me to spend time with them, too.

    But while I was out of the room, I understand that Senator Lautenberg may have asked questions of Chief Horvath with respect to Dover Air Force Base and the nature of the duties that you've seen, so I'm not going to ask about that. I said earlier that I would, but I think those questions have already been asked.

    Let me, instead, ask you, if you will, and maybe not just Chief Horvath but others as well, to give us some examples of the introduction of this whole new set of homeland security responsibilities that have been delivered to you and expected of you.

    Just to share with us again, some of you have already done this in your testimonies, but what are just concrete examples of how these new responsibilities have affected your department's budget, paying more on overtime; Chief Plaugher was talking about levels of stress and absenteeism, medical leave, ability to hire new personnel.

    And I'd be particularly interested in this: a lot of our first responders are people who serve in the guard and reserves, they've been activated, we have holes in our units. In some cases, you're paying, making up the difference between their previous pay and the pay that they receive in the military. How do you do that and at the same time hire and pay for new employees to fill the gaps that are (inaudible).

    Have you had to purchase new equipment? What's some examples of new equipment that you've had to purchase because of these responsibilities? How do you pay for that?

    And those are just sort of the range of questions I have. And you can sort of pick and choose if you want to. But before that, do you want to take a shot at any of those and then I'll ask others to join in.

HORVATH:

    Sure, thank you. First off, I'd like to apologize for not knowing whether or not the federal agencies could speak on our system. We have not had a situation where we've had to do that yet, so, sorry about that.

    The new responsibilities of homeland security that we've done, as touched on a little bit earlier, it's taken away from the traditional police services that we provide. We've been lucky not to have to increase the overtime by too much within the past six months. Right after September 11, obviously overtime was very high. And that is, we've had to transfer money from other line items in the budget to pay the officers the overtime. So other things that you planned on buying, other services that you offer have suffered because of that.

    We have tried to reduce our overtime by requiring officers that are regularly scheduled in various units, patrol, community policing, selective enforcement, that type of work, they are actually out doing homeland security issues instead of doing what I mentioned as regular, traditional police work. So I think the community is losing out a little bit in that area.

    I also mentioned earlier I've reduced the number of officers in the community policing unit and in the DARE unit to try to work with that issue.

    Answering your question about new equipment, we haven't received any funds for new equipment and we have not purchased new equipment other than we now have two bomb dogs that we didn't have prior to September 11th. The city has accepted the cost of that; there was no money available at the time. So we do have two new bomb dogs; I guess I would consider them equipment at this point. But as far as suits or item protective equipment, I think I can honestly say other than training for first responders on what to look for and how to move into a situation, as far as protective equipment, we are no better prepared today than we were on September 10.

CARPER:

    All right, thank you, sir.

    Others please? Any examples that you'd like to cite in response to my questions?

CHITWOOD:

    From a law enforcement perspective, I have to mirror what the chief said. I mean, I could take it in exactly the same way, the shifting of personnel to various -- to the airport in particular. We have developed a security plan. Every level of homeland security, we have additional responsibilities in our community.

    For example, right now, we're in an area where we're looking at all phone service, gas, electric, water, in the city of Portland. We have to be specific in those substation areas to work on that. Something we normally wouldn't do, but we take those line officers who are on the street to do these things.

    We've had several incidents on our port where the Coast Guard, through their vigilance, has notified us of individuals on the waterfront acting suspicious. We had to put officers down there. In particular cruise ships, in the cruise ship season, the boat lines that go into our different islands delivering people and vehicles.

    So it has an impact basically on what we do in the normal traditional policing of answering 911 calls, policing geographical areas, and investigating crime. Homeland security needs has dissipated that particular strength.

    With respect to equipment and technology, I hate to be redundant, but I will, with the ability to apply for the federal grants, as we have right now, directly to the Department of Justice and their grant process, we've been able to enhance our technology and training issues, as they impact our department.

CARPER:

    I'm not going to ask our other two witnesses to respond to that question. I do have one last question. It's a variation of the first question that I asked.

    And what I'm going to ask you to do, in closing, for me, would be to say if you do nothing else here in Washington, Congress and the president, if we do nothing else to enable you to do your jobs better with respect to protecting the homeland, do nothing else, do this and do this next. What would that one thing be for each of you? Do nothing else, do this and do this next, what would that be?

(UNKNOWN)

    I'll be glad to begin, Senator. Make the process straightforward and streamlined. It has to happen. We hear about these billions of dollars that are falling to the first responders, and let me assure you, they are not falling to the first responders. They are not getting where they are intended. The process needs to be simple, straightforward. It needs to be part of a national strategy to prepare our nation, our community.

    I mean, your own chart talks about the complexities of how to get the funding and that sort of thing.

    It is creating false expectations within our community. We have a public that thinks that now that everything is going to be OK because the government has allocated billions of dollars. And as you've heard here this morning, the first responder community has not changed since 9/11.

    If anything, we are stressed out higher. We're facing higher demands, but yet no resources have flowed to us. And so, Senator Carper, please if you can influence the other members, your other colleagues of Congress to make the process not convoluted and straightforward.

CARPER:

    Good. Thank you.

(UNKNOWN)

    Senator, I would echo the same comment that the process needs to allow the support to get down to the local level faster than it does today.

(UNKNOWN)

    The only other thing I would add is that personnel are a key ingredient in that process. So any of the efforts that you're working on that would support the hiring of additional personnel are key, because that's going to help us reduce some of the overtime, some of the stress levels that are caused as staffing is reallocated to address homeland security issues.

    I think most departments have some level of funding available to provide basic equipment and other things, but if they have the people, they can make progress.

    Thank you.

(UNKNOWN)

    Senator Carper, I think if we could just do one thing, I think it would be what they're saying, is to get us the funds, make it flexible, and make it so that we can do our job better and still offer our traditional police services.

    And I won't try to say better what they just said. I agree with everything they just said.

CARPER:

    Thank you.

(UNKNOWN)

    I agree with my cohorts. Let the federal government distribute funds wherever the needs are the greatest, through the grant programs that are already in place, that work, that have worked, and will continue to work, as long as there's money, and/or create a separate pool of funds for the neediest cities with the highest threat risk.

CARPER:

    Thank you.

    They all would seem to argue, Madam Chair, would seem to argue for the legislation that we'll be introducing later today, providing the flexibility.

COLLINS:

    Yes.

CARPER:

    It would also seem to argue for the idea of the proposal that you and Senator Feingold and I worked on, establishing a key -- one person in each state as a key point of contact. That's interesting.

    Thank you very, very much. That's all.