The Lead with Jake Tapper: Rep. Nancy Pelosi, (D-CA), Is Interviewed About Trump Indictment, China
Interview
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Thank you for asking. He's making progress. I said to him yesterday, I think millions of people around the world are praying for you, do your therapy so that you can get well soon. But he's making great progress. Thank you for asking.
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It's heartbreaking for our country to have a President of the United States with this list of charges against him. And I just want to commend the January 6 committee, the House committee, bipartisan committee, Bennie Thompson and Liz Cheney and all the members of the committee and the staff for the work that they did. They laid a foundation of facts about facts and the law and made a criminal referral to the Justice Department. That was the end of -- that was in December of the end of last year, 2022, and we didn't know what we couldn't know, it wasn't our role to know what the Justice Department would do, if anything. So when it became clear that there would be criminal charges made, it's interesting to see how similar they are to some of the charges recommended by the January 6 committee.
And I commend again the committee. I'm so proud of them, their courage, their bravery, and the courage, really, of all of those who are making the case now. Of course, the former president is innocent until proven guilty, no one is above the law. And the assault that they are making on the rule of law in our country is really a sad thing. I'm sure it would bring tears to the eyes of our founders.
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What I would say isn't to remind the American people that on the night when it was very clear to the Republican leadership in the House of Representatives and in the United States Senate that there was an incitement instigated by the president of the United States on the Capitol, on the Congress, more importantly, on the Constitution of the United States. They saw the danger, the danger that we were in. They saw the lack of response from the president for not sending the National Guard, which we pleaded for and pleaded for him and pleaded for him, and Chuck Schumer and I kept pleading with him also to call off his troops, but to send in the National Guard. They saw that.
They saw the danger. They made statements about it that recognized the involvement of President Trump. And then so many of them, majority of them in the House, voted to reject the peaceful transfer of government, accepting the numbers that the vote of the American people as demonstrated by the Electoral College vote. It was heartbreaking that of all the tragedy of that night and then to see them say, OK, we're not supporting the peaceful transfer of power in our country, that means more to me than any of this nonsense that he's engaged in now.
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It's not my response. I'm not responding to them. I'm speaking as I always have, with or without them, the rule of law is central to a democracy. The fact that the former president was always attacking the rule of law in our country, and now these guys are parroting that, shame on them. Shame on them.
But again, let's not talk about them. Let's just talk about our Constitution, our country, our respect for the rule of law. And by the way, while he was undermining the rule of law, he was also undermining a pillar of our democracy. Part of the First Amendment to the Constitution, freedom of the press. So if he can diminish the role of the press and mind of the people to know what the facts are, and he can diminish the role of -- rule of law in our country, we're on a path that is not a good one for our democracy.
So let's not spend too much time on them. Let's spend time on where we need to be as a country. Let's spend time on the greatness of Joe Biden's administration and what he's done for the country, creation of jobs, cutting unemployment in half and the rest. And, you know, you bring up a political question by talking about their political candidates for president. Let's -- if you want to talk about that, let's talk about good things, give -- let's give people hope.
But there is a moment of tragedy in our country in these days and actually days leading up to now because there have been other indictments. The former person who held the office of president of the United States had no respect for the office he held, no respect for the rule of law, no respect for free press in our country to tell the story one side or another. I don't always like the way the press talks about me, but that doesn't mean that should diminish the freedom of the press to speak. So we're at a place, we have an opportunity, a real opportunity to save our country and to do it in a unifying way, to be respectful of people who may have voted for him, may have been, for whatever reason that they did, and that's their vote and that's their right. But they should not be dragged into the gutter with him in terms of his undermining, the United States of America, our democracy, our rule of law our -- again, our Constitution.
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Yes.
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I know how thoughtful you are about this subject and I appreciate your question. But just because somebody has been president of the United States doesn't give him a license to break the law. When he became president, we said, he's the president, we want him to succeed, let's see how we could work together, became clear that many of us had more respect for the office that held than he ever did. And so, because he disrespected his office, disrespect the rule of law and the rest doesn't mean that we -- he should not be, anybody, I'm not even talking about him, I mean, anybody should not be having to answer for their actions. So let's not say, well, you know, no.
Yes, we know. We know that there is a body of knowledge, of facts in violation of the law that have to -- have the test of the court system, innocent until proven guilty. But if we become a country that says, well, it, you know, it might offend the people who voted for him and it might be disunifying, no, let's unify around the truth. Let's unify about what our country stands for and the rest. Let's unify about those people who are willing to take risks in the political arena that may not be popular but are right for our country rather than saying, well, let's give him a pass because he, you know, for whatever reason, has convinced people don't want to pay more taxes --
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-- or whether they don't like LGBTQ people or women or people of color or newcomers to our country, whatever they're -- or they just may have a philosophical view of a lesser role of government, which is to be respected, but it does not license to commit crimes and go uncharged.
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Yes.
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I didn't understand the word you said. What was the word?
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My what on China?
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Oh, hawkish.
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Hawkish, yes, yes.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Well, I have been hawkish about the regime in Beijing for a long time, yes, since they rolled over students in tanks in Tiananmen Square and again, have now have a genocide going on with Uyghurs Muslims in China and have suppressed democracy so visibly and sadly in Hong Kong. And the list goes on, again, what they're doing to the culture, the language, the religion throughout the whole country. So, I've had a human rights concern about China. A, I've had a security concern about China.
China had been proliferating weapons of technology for weapons of mass destruction as well as delivery systems for them. They got away with it because the corporate interest in America had so much influence here that we couldn't upset that apple cart while they were blocking trade going in, pirating our intellectual property. So human rights, trade, security in terms of the weapons.
Just think of Iran. Do you think that Iran had an indigenous nuclear program? Most of the technology, the scientists, the delivery system that was needed for such a thing came from China. The only thing indigenous to Iran was if they had the intent to use it. But everything else came from elsewhere.
And I've visited right across in Bahrain and seen the silkworm boats and ships there, you know, that's a right to arm and to buy weapons and the rest of that. But when it comes to the next step, which is the weapons of mass destruction, we have to show the price that is paid. And I can give you chapter and verse on ring magnets for centrifuge to enrich, and you know, we can have a longer session on this. So, I -- what I have said with all of my concerns about China's violations of human rights, complete, ridiculous violations of our trade agreements, which, because of corporate America, who was -- you know, were making the money --
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-- at the expense of manufacturers in America. We had to -- we had to -- and I said, if we refuse to speak out against human rights in China because of commercial interest, we lose all moral authority to speak out for human rights anyway.
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Now, having said all of that --
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-- I have said we must continue our conversations with China, whether it's on climate, whether it's possibly on security and the rest, despite their actions in the South China Sea. I think that President Trump's approach to it was completely wrong. And being such a hard line when he was vis-a-vis China -- we're talking about specific interests, issues that needed to be addressed, he was just painting them as the villain for everything that happens, that happened poorly in people's lives in the United States.
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So, no, I don't think that the Chinese did anything differently because I went there. They know I've been their for a long time --
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-- because I've had the goods on them. But I was not going to have the President of China tell me the Speaker of the House, you have to ignore the democracy in Taiwan, because I'm really going to get very upset with you.
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And today is the one year anniversary.
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Today is the one year anniversary of our trip. We have received so much praise from around the world and around the country about our visit there. The courage to make it, to identify with democracy and not to be running into a corner because a dictator in China is a coward and throws a temper.
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But again, the people of China deserve better and we -- hopefully we can get to a better place.
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Thank you.
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Thank you. Thank you, Jake. OK.
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