Meet the Press - February 19, 2023

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Chuck, I don't want to characterize what, what he said. I don't think that would be appropriate. Although I can tell you, no, there was no apology. But what I can also tell you is this was an opportunity to speak very clearly and very directly about the fact that China sent a surveillance balloon over our territory, violating our sovereignty, violating international law. And, I told him quite simply that that was unacceptable and can never happen again. We're, of course, not the only ones on the receiving end of these surveillance balloons. More than forty countries have had these balloons fly over them in recent years, and that's been exposed to the world. I also had an opportunity, because we're here in Munich, as you know, focused primarily on Russia's ongoing aggression against --

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

-- Ukraine, to share our very real concerns about China's support for Russia in that, in that war. And, what we've seen in -- over the past years, is of course some political and rhetorical support, even some non-lethal support, but we are very concerned that China's considering providing lethal support to Russia in its aggression against Ukraine, and I made clear that that would have serious consequences in our relationship, as well something President Biden has shared directly with President Xi on several occasions. Finally, I underscored the importance of having direct lines of communication. The importance of continuing to engage in diplomacy between our countries. I think this is something that the world expects of us. They expect us to manage this relationship responsibly, and so it was important that we had that opportunity this evening here in Munich.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Well, Chuck, China's having -- trying to have it both ways. Publicly, they present themselves as a country striving for, for peace in Ukraine. But privately, as I said, we've seen already over these past months the provision of nonlethal assistance that does go directly to aiding and abetting Russia's war effort. And some further information that we are sharing today and that I think will be out there soon that indicates that they are strongly considering providing lethal assistance to Russia. To the best of our knowledge, they haven't --

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

-- crossed that line yet.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

But, as we're sharing --

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Chuck, I can't -- Chuck, I don't want to get into the details in this, in this moment. But there are various kinds of lethal assistance that they are at least contemplating providing, to include weapons.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Well, again, I'll let, I'll let the information that we have and that we're sharing speak for itself. But the main concern is material support to Russia's war effort that would have a lethal effect.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Chuck, what I want to stress is this: We see China considering this; we have not seen them cross that line. So I think it's important that we make clear, as I did this evening in my meeting with Wang Yi, that this is something that is of deep concern to us. And I made clear the importance of not crossing that line, and the fact that it would have serious consequences in our own relationship, something that we do not need on top of the balloon incident that China's engaged in.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Look, I'm not going to get -- I'm not going to get into that. But I can, again, tell you that this is something that President Biden has raised directly with President Xi.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

No, again, this is something that President Biden has shared with President Xi almost going back to day one of the Russian aggression against Ukraine. They spoke, I think, two or three weeks into the Russian aggression, back last March. And at that time, in that very first conversation after the Russian aggression, President Biden said to him, "It's going to be very important going forward that you not provide any direct military support to Russia for this war in Ukraine," as well as engaging in any systematic efforts to evade the sanctions that we've imposed on individuals and companies who are aiding the war effort in Ukraine by Russia. So this is something that we've been concerned about from day one because you remember, Chuck, that just before the Russian aggression, President Xi and President Putin got together and talked about a partnership with no limits. In that context, one of the concerns we had was "no limits" might include providing lethal support to Russia in the war. So this is something we've been watching from day one, and the reason that we're sharing further information now is we are concerned that this is something that China was not doing for many, many months but may be considering doing now.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

We are in the process of doing that.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

No, Chuck. I think, and the president spoke to this himself just, just the other day, with regard to the surveillance balloon from China itself, as you know, we spotted it. We took action to protect sensitive information on the ground that it was attempting to surveil. We got information from the balloon itself as it traversed the United States. And when it was safe to do so, in terms of not posing a danger to people on the ground, we shot it down. And now we're in the process of recovering what remains of the balloon to learn more about the technology that it had on board. What happened after that was we recalibrated our radars, because this balloon program, based on information we have now, has been going on for some time. In years past, we weren't necessarily looking at the, the space in which this was happening. We recalibrated the radars, and, as a result, we saw more things that we weren't seeing in the past. And among those things were these three objects that were shot down that, unlike the Chinese surveillance balloon, were flying lower and posed a threat to commercial aviation. And so one of the reasons, the main reason, that the president ordered that action be taken was to make sure that there was no threat to commercial aviation. Now, I think one of the things that comes out of this more broadly is this has been in many ways unregulated air space and subspace. And we need to do much more, I think, to make sure that we and countries around the world have a better idea of what's up, when, and where in order to make sure that we can proceed safely, securely, and not have objects that pose a threat to our people or to our country. But at the same time, making sure that things that are there and proceeding with peaceful purpose can do so as long as they don't pose a threat to aviation.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Well, Chuck, what I can tell you is this. What is clear is that, once the balloon was over the United States and flying basically west to east, it attempted to surveil very sensitive military sites. In some cases, it loitered or returned to them as it progressed east. So there's no doubt in our minds at all that, A) this was a surveillance balloon, and, B) it was attempting to engage in active surveillance.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Chuck, this is obviously among the most consequential but also complex relationships that we have, and probably the same could be said for many other countries around the world. And of course we're in a vigorous competition with China, and that's something we're not at all shy about. We intend to compete very vigorously, and we've taken important steps over the last couple of years to invest in ourselves so that we compete effectively. But also to align with allies and partners around the world so that we have a shared approach to some of the challenges that China poses. And as we're doing that, we have a strong interest in trying to manage the relationship responsibly, and to make sure, to the best of our ability, that competition doesn't veer into conflict or into cold war. I don't think that's in our interest. And also, it's important to note that there are some very big issues out there that are affecting all of our citizens and affecting people around the world where, if we can, it would be in our interest to find ways to cooperate on climate, on global health, on the macroeconomic situation around the world. And we have a responsibility to at least try to do that. So that's why I say you can't reduce this to a bumper sticker or to a label. It's complicated, it's consequential and we need to manage it responsibly.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

No, we didn't talk about that tonight. We really focused on the balloon incident. We focused on some other areas of concern that we have and, as I noted, the main one which is the concerns about Chinese support for Russia in its war of aggression against Ukraine. We also talked about the most recent North Korean missile launch and our view that China, given the relationship it has with North Korea, should try to use its influence to curb these kind of actions coming from North Korea.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Chuck, at every step along the way, we've said that fundamentally these questions about Ukraine, about its future, belong to the Ukrainians. These are their decisions. And we're determined to support them in their efforts to uphold their territorial integrity, their independence, their sovereignty. But I don't want to speculate about the future. What I can tell you is this: It's really important, whatever happens, in terms of our own interests, that there be a just and durable peace. And by that, I mean this. "Just" because if we have a peace that somehow ratifies the seizure of land by force, that risks opening a Pandora's box around the world where other would-be aggressors conclude they can do what Russia did and get away with it. "Durable" in that what we don't want in terms of our interests and certainly in terms of Ukraine is to arrive at a place where we leave things so that it's likely that Russia simply repeats the exercise a year, two years, five years later. So broadly, I think that's what we're aiming at and certainly what Ukraine is aiming at. But in terms of the specific contours of where we can achieve peace, these are fundamentally Ukraine's decisions.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Well, I can't share any conversations we've had other than to say we've had conversations.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Thanks a lot, Chuck. Great to be with you. Thank you.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source