MSNBC Hardball with Chris Matthews - Transcript

MSNBC Hardball with Chris Matthews - Transcript

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MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL. We‘re celebrating our ninth anniversary on HARDBALL this week and today and I‘m coming to you directly from the University of Southern California campus, it‘s beautiful out here.

This state, as many of you well know, experienced a tidal wave of protests yesterday by illegal immigrants and immigrant advocacy groups who want Congress to create a path to citizenship for the 11 million illegal immigrants now in the country.

Immigrant groups are saying this is the beginning of an Hispanic civil rights movement that will translate into a force at the ballot box. According to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll, 50 percent of Americans trust Democrats to do a better job handling the issue of illegal immigration, with just 38 percent trusting the Republicans.

But when asked if the U.S. is doing enough to keep illegal immigrants from entering the country, a whopping 75 percent say no. Will these street protests yield an immigration bill and what do they mean for the November elections this year?

Democratic Congressman James Moran of Virginia gave a fiery speech at yesterday‘s demonstration at the Washington Mall and Pat Buchanan is an MSNBC political analyst.

Congressman Moran, right off the bat, three quarters of the American people want to stop illegal immigration. Where do you stand?

REP. JAMES MORAN (D), VIRGINIA: Oh, I think we should limit illegal immigration, but the current system isn‘t working, Chris. And of course, legislation has always been a reactive process. What we have on the books now doesn‘t fit the reality.

There‘s two million people, primarily from Mexico, trying to get across the border. We apprehend 1.2 million, a quarter of them get in legally, another quarter get in illegally. I think we ought to - we ought to increase the quotas depending upon the strength of our economy. I think we ought to have biometric identifiers, instead of building a wall to keep them out, find out who it is that is coming in and if you did that, you could hold employers responsible and you could get people on an avenue to citizenship, which of course is going to stabilize our economy as it keeps our—stabilize our society as it keeps our economy strong.

We can afford to absorb most of these immigrants that are working here. Because that‘s the reality, they‘re working here, and they embrace the American dream a heck of a lot more than a lot of the people who by the action of birth are entitled to all the benefits of American citizenship. I think you ought to earn your citizenship and these are the very people who are.

MATTHEWS: OK. Let‘s go to Pat Buchanan. Your view on what Jim just said. The Congressman just said?

PAT BUCHANAN, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: We had four million Americans who never graduated from high school who are out of work and these are the Americans whose jobs are being taken by illegal immigrants.

Now when we say illegal immigrants, we mean very simply, they broke the law, they broke in line, they broke into our country, they‘re here illegally, and millions of them are demonstrating for the rights and benefits of citizens.

And I would hope a government of the United States is not going to be intimidated by this and would answer them simply no. You don‘t deserve and you‘re not going to get the benefits of citizenship at the expense of American taxpayers.

What we ought to do is first, the president is not doing it, secure the borders and enforce the laws of the United States. He can secure it with a fence, he can secure it by basically grabbing a couple of businessmen who chronically hire illegals, cheat on their taxes, cheat on their rivals and put a couple of them in jail and start reducing the magnets here.

We ought to treat everybody here legally, according to the laws of the land, we ought to treat every American citizen like a fellow citizen, but if you come illegally, Chris, I don‘t believe you‘re entitled to the benefits of citizenship and if we don‘t follow the law we‘re going to lose our country.

MORAN: I‘m not opposed to enforcement, Pat, but the fact is, that most Americans are not willing to dig the ditches or wash the dishes or pick the crops or mop the floors. That‘s why these folks are here, because they are doing jobs that most Americans wouldn‘t do and they‘re getting paid a lot less than most Americans would be willing to accept.

BUCHANAN: Let me answer you, Jim. Seventy-five percent of all these jobs, ditch digging, construction work, bus boys, all the rest of them are done by American citizens. Twenty-five percent or less are done by illegal aliens. The truth is, Americans will do the job.

But no doubt, businessmen like illegal aliens because they have no rights, they‘ll work off the books, they don‘t pay taxes on them, they can get away with this sort of thing. We pass laws like minimum wage laws and other laws to protect American citizens and again, Jim, it is basically your constituents and frankly a lot who voted for me, $15,000 to $30,000 a year people who are hurt by illegal immigration.

It‘s not folks who go to restaurants and get big $100 meals. It‘s not the folks who take their cars to the car wash, they get the benefits of this. The cost is paid by taxpayers and workers.

MATTHEWS: Jim, let me ask you this, Congressman, because it comes down to what the Congress is going to do, not what you guys say here. Is Congress willing to do the whole caboodle?

Are they willing to put teeth in our immigration rules so if a an employer gets caught hiring illegal or off the books, he gets slammed with a really lifetime punishment, like $40,000 a shot so he isn‘t going to do it again. And are we going to do something about border control and legalizing 11 million people here, because nobody is going to send them home, and number two are we going to have a legal guest worker program?

Why don‘t we do it all, Congressman, all four of it. Tough enforcement at the border and tough enforcement of employment and then give the guy a chance to become legal if they learn the language, do the work, stay out of trouble. And fourth, do something so people can come in the country legally to work.

Why not do it all? I don‘t get it.

MORAN: You could do it if the business community would buy into it. But the business community is not going to buy into the current system because they don‘t have enough workers if you restrict it to the approximate 400,000 that are allowed in legally.

The fact is our economy can and has to absorb almost twice that many people. But if you did that, and if you identified everybody coming in, then I think the business community would buy into it, and be held accountable if they hired people that were illegal, because they could take their car, they could find out exactly, immediately who they are, whether they were supposed to be here.

But we have a broken system. And I don‘t think we‘re going to get legislation because we‘re not going to get a balanced piece of legislation, Chris.

The problem is that the House is not going to accept the more balanced approach of the Senate. I‘m a co-sponsor of the Senate Kennedy-McCain bill, but I certainly oppose building a wall for 700 miles on a 2,000-mile border. Certainly oppose criminalizing helping people who are in need and I oppose...

MATTHEWS: ... I‘ve got to give Pat a chance, Congressman.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Pat, will there be a bill, should there be or better to leave it the way it is?

BUCHANAN: It would better to have no bill than to have a bill with guest worker and amnesty. Let me tell you what‘s wrong with guest worker. It‘s un-American. We bring in here immigrants to came to Ellis Island, were fellow citizens. They were on the road to citizenship.

We‘re going to bring in trolls, the folks in Orwell‘s book, who simply are going to do our work, Chris, and they‘re not going to be fellow citizens? That‘s un-American. Secondly, as for the sanctions in businesses, the president is the executive officer of the United States. The sanctions are in the law, the president is not enforcing the law, the Congress is not requiring him to enforce the law. The president could punish these businessmen, Justice Department could do it tomorrow.

MORAN: Well Pat is absolutely right.

MATTHEWS: That‘s where you‘re right, Pat.

MORAN: We shouldn‘t have a second class of citizens, they‘re not citizens, residents. This is what Europe did and that‘s why you have such instability. They‘ll bring them in for their labor but they won‘t allow them to be Frenchmen or Germans, or whatever. If somebody is here, they ought to be on a path towards citizenship, learn the English language, abide by our laws and they are going to keep the American dream alive.

BUCHANAN: We got the Buchanan-Moran bill.

MATTHEWS: Congressman Jim Moran, I‘ve got to say good night. But thank you both, Congressman Jim Moran and Pat Buchanan, thanks for joining us. It looks like there‘s not going to be a bill as it‘s going.

MORAN: Why are you in southern California and we‘re stuck up on the Hill? What‘s wrong with this?

MATTHEWS: It‘s a wrong world. Anyway, up next, he‘s worked for...

BUCHANAN: Happy birthday, Chris.

MATTHEWS: ... Thank you, guys. He‘s worked for both President Bush and Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger. Matt Dowd will be here with us in just a moment, a real political expert joining us on our ninth anniversary on HARDBALL, only on MSNBC.

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