CNN "State of the Union" - TRANSCRIPT California Mass Shooting; Interview With Rep. Michael McCaul (R-TX); Interview With Sen. Richard Durbin (D-IL); Interview With Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV); Interview With Fmr. Rep. Mondaire Jones (D-NY). Aired 9-10a ET

Interview

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Here with me now is Republican Congressman Michael McCaul of Texas. He is the new chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Thank you so much for joining me. Appreciate it.

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX): Thanks, Dana.

BASH: A lot of talk -- stuff to talk about with Congress and Ukraine.

I first want to ask you about what we're seeing in Monterey Park, California.

MCCAUL: Yes.

BASH: In your home state of Texas, there have been a lot of mass shootings, Uvalde, Sutherland Springs, El Paso, Santa Fe.

You voted no on bipartisan gun legislation last summer that got a pretty big bipartisan vote. It was pretty incremental also. Would you support any gun control measures in this Congress?

MCCAUL: You know, I was a counterterrorism federal prosecutor. I was chairman of Homeland Security.

Chicago has probably the -- some of the strictest gun laws in the nation, yet the highest murder rate. So, the way I look at it is, we need the intelligence. We need information sharing. We need to connect the dots.

Every one of these cases -- and I guarantee you're going to see it in this one as well -- the shooter had warning signs along the way. We just didn't respond or pick it up. So, in my judgment, we could create a system. I introduced a bill that we could take public information on the Internet, have an algorithm to stop the threat before it happens.

That is a smart approach, rather than violating Second Amendment rights. And so, look, I hope we can get that passed. We're seeing this movie way too many times.

BASH: Yes, we are.

[09:40:00]

MCCAUL: And it's absolutely tragic.

BASH: Yes.

What about a red flag law, federal red flag law?

MCCAUL: Well, in a way, what I'm talking about are red flags.

In every one of these -- but Chicago, Illinois, has red flag laws. It didn't stop it.

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BASH: I know. You keep bringing up Chicago, which I understand.

But the guns in Chicago come in from other places, because there are a patchwork of laws across the country, and there's no federal law.

MCCAUL: Right.

Again, we stopped -- and I saw it when I chaired Homeland -- so many territories because we got the threat information in advance, and we stopped it. We can use that same formula here domestically, although it's a little different. The Constitution didn't apply overseas.

But we can do that here and stop these threats before they happen.

BASH: Let's talk about Russia and Russia's war on Ukraine.

Ukraine is still asking for more help, as you well know. You have had pretty strong words about Germany, because Germany so far is saying no to transferring its tanks to Ukraine. You call that a cowardly decision.

It seems like we're at a pretty key moment in this war. What do you think the Biden administration should do differently with regard to this particular standoff?

MCCAUL: Well, the NATO secretary-general, Stoltenberg, called it a pivotal moment.

I think that we cannot slow-walk the weapons. And even "The Wall Street Journal" had a great editorial where they said there's no moral or strategic case for giving Ukraine just enough weapons to bleed for months, but not for victory.

I have been a proponent of, let's give them what they need, because, when we do, they win. The tanks are vitally important. Why? Because we know, with the new general Putin put in place, they're going to start a major offensive on the eastern flank in the Donbass.

And we know that's going to happen. The tanks can help stop that. Germany will not put one tank in. Remember Germany, Nord Stream 2 pipeline? They won't put one tank in until we give them reassurances we're going to put our Abrams in. If we did that publicly, that would unleash so many Leopard tanks, because there are 10 other nations that are looking for Germany to sign off on the tanks that they have given them.

That would be a game-changer, in addition to tactical missiles called ATACMS that can reach Crimea to take out the Iranian drones.

BASH: So, Mr. Chairman, are you arguing here for the U.S. sending Abrams tanks to Ukraine?

MCCAUL: A hundred percent. We don't have to send very many.

All we have to do is send enough to unleash what Germany has and what the 10 other countries in NATO have. NATO has to share the burden. One good thing that came out Ramstein, this summit, was that NATO countries are sharing the burden. It's in their backyard. It's in their best interests.

BASH: And there's no concern that this could be an escalation in the eyes of Russia?

MCCAUL: You know, they said that with Stingers. They said that with Javelins, HIMARS.

BASH: OK.

MCCAUL: I mean, look, I think Mr. Putin is the provocative one here who's escalated this.

He invaded a sovereign territory, aggressively unprovoked.

BASH: Mr. Chairman, a lot of members of your conference, fellow Republicans, they want to stop giving money to Ukraine. Should Ukraine be worried that the money is going to stop coming from the U.S.?

MCCAUL: No. No.

I think there's enough support on both sides of the aisle, majority in the Democratic Party, majority in the Republican. The national security chairman, like myself, support this. We have to educate our members. I don't think they quite understand what is at stake.

If Ukraine falls, Chairman Xi in China's going to invade Taiwan. It's Russia, China. Iran is putting drones in Crimea, and North Korea that is putting artillery into Russia. They have to understand the case. And they talk about the border, not mutually exclusive at all. We can do both. We're a great country. We can walk and chew gum at the same time.

BASH: Let's talk about some things happening on the home front, specifically the revelation last night that the FBI found six more classified documents at President Biden's private home in Delaware.

And that was after a 13-hour search, one that he invited to get to the bottom of it. What is your reaction? And do you feel satisfied now that the FBI has what it needs and has everything?

MCCAUL: I don't know, because, every day, it seems like they're finding more documents.

And so I think what's significant, as a former federal prosecutor, is that no longer are they relying on the attorneys to comply, although it was consensual, the search. But the fact is, the FBI conducted this search, not his attorneys. That really ratchets the investigation up.

BASH: But, as you said, they invited the FBI to do so.

MCCAUL: They did. And I think that's true. I don't know.

[09:45:00]

The DNI, director of national intelligence, won't give Congress any information about the documents. I hear it pertains to foreign adversaries. I don't know. The Chinese gave a $30 million contribution to University of Pennsylvania at the same time the Biden Center is being stood up.

And what -- is there a connection? I'm sending a letter out tomorrow to the State Department and Secretary Blinken asking for what communications, what contacts were made. What were these documents? Were Chinese officials at the Biden Center?

And the fact that they're in the garage with a Corvette and in a home where Hunter Biden is recovering. And he took a picture on his laptop of important documents. I just think, Dana, there are a lot of unanswered questions here.

BASH: Yes, just for the record, University of Pennsylvania said the Chinese money did not go to the Biden Center.

MCCAUL: Right.

BASH: And we don't have any evidence about Hunter Biden being related to this at all.

MCCAUL: But they do have the Thousand Talents program.

BASH: Yes.

MCCAUL: That's their classic way of...

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BASH: I have to ask you.

MCCAUL: Yes, Dana.

BASH: We're almost out of time.

The debt ceiling. You have voted in the past to raise the debt ceiling, in fact, three times even since 2017. Why not do it now?

MCCAUL: Yes.

And I think, if you don't, you have catastrophic economic consequences.

BASH: So, you will vote for it?

MCCAUL: Well, I talked to Kevin McCarthy, the speaker, yesterday. He had made it very clear: I'm ready to sit down with President Biden today to talk about a reasonable debt ceiling, which would mean meaningful spending cuts.

The fact is, we should be having these conversations right now. We know that Secretary Yellen is going to put -- she can put this off until June. June's going to be the target month. But the speaker of the House is willing to sit down today with the president of the United States and try to work this out. And I would encourage him to do that.

BASH: House Foreign Affairs Chairman Michael McCaul, thank you so much.

MCCAUL: Thanks, Dana.

BASH: Appreciate it.

And congratulations on your championship. I haven't seen you since.

MCCAUL: Thank you.

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