CNN "Anderson Cooper 360" - TRANSCRIPT House Voting On Motion To Adjourn After 11th Speaker Vote; Interview With Rep. Victoria Spartz (R-IN); House Votes To Adjourn Until Noon Tomorrow After McCarthy Fails On 11th Speaker Vote; McCarthy On Speakership Vote: "I'm Not Putting A Timeline". Aired 8-9p ET

Interview

Joining us now, Indiana Republican Congresswoman Victoria Spartz who has been voting present for the last few days. She did so again tonight.

Congresswoman, thanks so much for joining us. You voted for Kevin McCarthy in the first three votes, but then for the last eight, you voted present.

You told me that you were voting present yesterday because you wanted to see negotiations happen and you were trying to take a step back and give the rebels and the McCarthy forces time to negotiate.

[20:05:08]

It sounds like the McCarthy people have been making offer after offer, and McCarthy has been acquiescing on issue after issue. Why are you still voting present?

REP. VICTORIA SPARTZ (R-IN): I think it's important for us to have this conversation because I think we do have a responsibility to elect the Speaker, but we have to talk to each other.

So I think, I believe we are making progress. It's very good to have a progress. And honestly, you know, we need to come together because we have to govern and Republicans in the House to make a difference with each other.

So if Kevin is able to get us, you know, in the small group talks, then great. If not, we can go back as a conference and have this discussion.

So you know, I think it's important, and I truly believe we have some positive movement and having these talks, then we will come up with a Speaker.

TAPPER: Are you open at all to voting for someone else? Perhaps the number two House Republican, Steve Scalise for Speaker if McCarthy were to withdraw his name from consideration?

SPARTZ: So I will be personal to tell you something, that I am not worried as much about personality, worry about this institution and the processes. I think there are a lot of good things happening as part of this job because we do not want to be a dictatorship. Each of us represent equal amount of people and we need to be able to have an equal input on issues. So I think it's actually even beneficial to Democrats.

TAPPER: Yes.

SPARTZ: If we reform this institution, so I'm not worried about it as much. Honestly, I don't even mind. We can just put all names and let God decide, put it in a hat, and just pick a person because it's not about the person, it is about this institution and us to start governing, and I think that what matters a lot if we have the right rules.

TAPPER; Let me interrupt -- let me interrupt for one second. I apologize, Congresswoman, but they just -- the clerk this gaveled down and the vote is over, and the yeas have it. There will be the motion to adjourn. It will pass by 219 to 213. So the House will adjourn until tomorrow at noon. Let's listen in.

CHERYL L. JOHNSON, CLERK, US HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: ... the nays are 213. The motion is adopted.

Accordingly, the House stands adjourned until noon tomorrow.

TAPPER: All right, I apologize, Congresswoman. I just wanted to bring that news as it was happening. So you are going to adjourn until noon tomorrow. So, I won't keep you too much later.

But what concessions are there left for Kevin McCarthy to give? Already, I have heard from several Members of Congress about the fact that it is going to be so difficult to legislate whoever the Speaker is, because McCarthy has given on so many items for must pass bills, such as funding the government or raising the debt ceiling.

Congress is likely going to be in a position where Democrats, the 212, Democrats vote to sign a discharge petition, and then six or seven, whatever responsible Republicans will do so as well to force must pass bills onto the floor of the House, because the concessions Kevin McCarthy has made is going to make it so must pass bills are going to be blocked in committee because so much power is being given to these rebels.

It doesn't seem like he has much to give beyond that.

SPARTZ: I don't want to comment on the details because I haven't seen what was discussed. And I think it would be good for us to hear what is discussed. And before anyone will make final decisions, we will hear it as a conference.

But legislative process should never be easy. Laws should never be easy. We shouldn't be producing legislation without deliberation and debate and looking into things.

So it shouldn't be just a top down shoved to everyone and force everyone to vote. This is not how legislative process works. Open process is tough, but that is what we came here to do and we have to be able to do it.

I think it's important for us to get back to business, so we have a proper oversight on the executive branch and a lot of other important issues. But people shouldn't be afraid to take votes and then make people know where they stand on issues.

So it's not a bad thing, but I don't want to comment on any specific rules, because I haven't seen them and it wouldn't be informed commentaries that I could make.

TAPPER: No, I hear you. But I guess what I'm saying is what I'm hearing from House Republicans and allies of Kevin McCarthy is that they feel like all of these rule changes are making it so -- that it has gone beyond democratizing and liberalizing the voting process and the legislative process and the amendment process, and it has gone into a place where there will be the tyranny of the minority, where these rebels will be able to force votes quickly on whether or not to get rid of a Speaker or to prevent legislation that can pass the House of Representatives from even coming up for a vote.

[20:10:09]

That that's how much -- that's the fears that I'm hearing from your House Republican colleagues, that that is the territory we're entering.

SPARTZ: Well, I think we should make a judgement before we see it, and I honestly, before we are deliberating discussions in the conference, and these rule changes, no one is going to come to the decision.

So all sides will be able to deliberate and address issues and concerns before any changes are made, so I don't worry about that. And if there are some legitimate concerns like that, we'll have to hear how it is going to be addressed.

But I don't worry about that right now. I just want to make sure that we are talking to each other and we are having these discussions because it's important, it is part of resolutions, it's important for us to talk to each other.

And then, you know, a lot of people have different opinions, but only people in the room really know what's happening and until they come to a consensus and everyone else see what's happening, it is going to be a transparent process, no one is going to enforce the rules on anyone. So we'll have to be addressing it as a group of people.

TAPPER: One last question before you go, Congresswoman, because you have a unique perspective as the only Ukrainian born Member of Congress. I've heard you some of your Republican colleagues, to me and to others, talking about how this chaotic process is helping authoritarians make the argument that democracy is so messy and complicated.

It is dysfunctional autocracy, that this is all proving autocracy is a better way to go. I know you disagree with that, I disagree with it. But as somebody who has grown up in Eastern Europe, do you think that that is true, that this messiness is making it easier for dictators to make the argument that democracy is not worth the effort?

SPARTZ: Well, I can tell you one thing, democracy is never easy. This process is hard. They're meant to be hard. But I would never take changes for anything else.

If you live in a dictatorship, if you live under tyranny, you know, what it means to have freedoms and that's why Ukrainian people are now dying for freedoms, and don't want to go back to that.

Sometimes we have to really learn from some lessons and really remember how many people die for our freedoms, so we are going to be fighting for our Republic, and I think part of deliberation, it is to have this discussion.

So, I think they're healthy. Better have them now than later, and I think we will come up with a Speaker and we will start governing, I promise you.

TAPPER: All right, Congresswoman Spartz, it is always good to see you. Thank you so much.

SPARTZ: Thank you.

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