MSNBC Hardball with Chris Matthews - Transcript

MSNBC Hardball with Chris Matthews - Transcript

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MATTHEWS: Thank you, David Shuster.

We're joined right now by Tom DeLay, the former majority leader of the House of Representatives. The guy gave me a call last night to tell me what you were up to.

If you had to point to one reason for your resignation from the House, which apparently you announced today, what would it be?

REP. TOM DELAY ®, TEXAS: The Republican majority.

I've worked a long time building that majority, and helping build it, and work on it, and my constituents deserve a Republican to represent the 22nd District and now we'll have one.

MATTHEWS: Do you think you bet too much on the Republican Party?

DELAY: Bet too much on the Republican Party?

MATTHEWS: Yes. I mean, you've given a lot. You raised a lot of money for them.

DELAY: I believe in it. I believe in—it's the Republican Party that will advance the conservative cause, and that's why I got into politics in the first place.

Ronald Reagan enticed me as a Republican precinct chairman with only five Republicans in my precinct in 1976.

MATTHEWS: Ken Mehlman, the chairman of your party, said something pretty nice about you tonight and I think you'd have to respond to it:

"The essence of leadership is not just coming up with good ideas, it's making those good ideas happen. For the past two decades, Tom DeLay has tirelessly and successfully transformed very important ideas into very successful laws. Conservative legislation from welfare reform and a balanced budget, to tax relief, education reform and a ban on partial-birth abortion all bear the signature of Tom DeLay."

DELAY: Well, that's very nice to say, but there were a lot of other Republicans that did that too.

MATTHEWS: Why wasn't the president a little more outward in saying that kind of thing today when he was asked about your retirement?

DELAY: You'll have to ask him that.

MATTHEWS: He said nothing.

All he said was—I mean, I would be concerned if the president of the United States, whose legislation you put into action, had this to say about me: "I had a talk last night on my way back from the ballgame with Congressman DeLay."

"He informed me of his decision. My reaction was it had to have been a very difficult decision for someone who loved representing his district in the state of Texas. I wished him all the very best. I know he's looking forward to...he's looking to the future."

He said nothing good about you.

DELAY: That sounds good to me.

MATTHEWS: What's the good part?

DELAY: I thought he was very gracious when we talked on the phone. I was very proud of what he said. I also talked to the vice president, and he was very gracious.

They know me, both men. I've worked with both men for a long time.

MATTHEWS: It just seems like they're skipping away.

DELAY: No, I think they have a little sadness about me leaving, and at the same time they're not shocked for the reasons that I gave them, and they know that I can do more outside of the House right now than being locked in a reelection battle in Sugarland, Texas.

MATTHEWS: Let me read you something. I have no idea what you're going to say to this. These are the best questions, I have no idea what you're going to say to.

Rick Scarborough (ph). Do you know him? He's an evangelical minister.

DELAY: He was a minister of the First Baptist Church in (inaudible). A very dear friend of mine. And he and I worked together to create Vision America (ph).

MATTHEWS: He said, "I believe the most damaging thing that Tom DeLay has done in his life is to take his faith seriously into public office, which made him a target for all those who despise the cause of Christ. God always does his best work right after a crucifixion."

I mean, he says that you were brought down by your faith.

DELAY: No. I think I've been strengthened by my faith. I think that probably was taken out of context. I know Rick (ph). I was with him just—well, Saturday, and talked to him about this decision. He's a wonderful man, a great friend. And he understands what I've been through. And my faith has been strengthened. I have matured as a Christian over these attacks. When you go through these kinds of things your faith is stronger than ever and you rely on the lord more than ever.

MATTHEWS: Do you believe if you were a secular politician who had never expressed his religious faith that you would have been less of a target to the Democrats?

DELAY: No. I think I was a target of the Democrats for many reasons.

We changed the culture of Washington, D.C., not just taking the majority. We changed the culture of this town. We changed the country, we've changed the world, having a Republican majority.

The Democrats and the left hate that. Number one, they hate the fact that what they believe in has been rejected by the American people. And secondly, they hate the fact that we are actually doing the things we told the American people we would do.

We've spent the last 10 years turning around 40 years of the left's dominance of Washington, D.C., and the federal government. And they knew as majority leader I was starting to lead us to do the things that conservatives have wanted to do all along. Get rid of the tax code. End abortion as we know it. Hold the judiciary accountable. Fight the war on terror. All of those things are things that they just hate.

I'm not whining. They zeroed in on me and announced publicly that they were going to destroy me personally and destroy my character. And they've tried for now 10 years, and they're still losing.

MATTHEWS: Well, I believe everything you say you believe in. I think most people do, even though who don't like you (inaudible) you believe in. But there's a contradiction in what you just said, Congressman.

You said that you were giving up your seat because you were fearful that a loss of a Republican seat, which you believe you can save by giving it to another candidate, was critical. And if you have won your battle for cultural change in Washington, why are the Democrats so close to taking back the House that one seat would make the difference?

DELAY: No, it's not one seat. Every seat, as you well know, particularly when we have as small a margin as we've had to deal with over the last 11 years, every seat is precious. And you have to deal with it that way. And this seat is precious. It's precious to the Republican majority and it's precious to my constituents.

My constituents deserve better and they deserve a Republican, not a liberal Democrat representing them.

MATTHEWS: Let me talk to you about the topics you raised and I'm going to just raise them with you.

Here's your chance to talk to a pretty good national audience tonight.

You were in the news. You're a news maker tonight.

(LAUGHTER)

DELAY: I didn't notice.

MATTHEWS: You are.

(LAUGHTER)

There's a lot of cameras in this room, in fact, more than usual.

What are the stakes for the voter out there who is thinking about voting, personally, as a switch voter, back and forth voter, trying to decide which party to vote for this November?

I want to ask you, you know that one of the most powerful tools of the Congress is the subpoena power. It's in the hands of the Reform Committee; it's in the hands of the Judiciary Committee.

What would happen if Henry Waxman got the subpoena power in the Government Reform Committee? What would happen if John Conyers of Michigan got the subpoena power? Would they go after the president?

DELAY: Sure, they would.

They've tried the whole time we've been in the majority, just look at what they've been doing.

Henry Waxman is constantly calling for investigations, mostly frivolous investigations to make political points.

John Conyers has even called for the impeachment of the president. What do you think he's going to do if he's chairman of the Judiciary Committee?

MATTHEWS: You have an inside view, Congressman, of what they will do.

I know their records. I know their philosophies.

But you tell me, the man in the news today, do you believe that the Republicans, if they lose the House, will turn over the subpoena power to people who will try to impeach the president?

DELAY: Absolutely.

John Conyers not too long ago held a mock meeting of all the left and talked about impeaching the president and he's called for impeaching the president. Do you think when he gets the gavel as chairman of the Judiciary Committee he won't try to impeach the president? Of course he will.

MATTHEWS: Do you think more modestly they might push for censure along the lines of Russ Feingold in the Senate? Do you think they're going to push for—which one do you think they're going for, his head or just a big wound?

DELAY: I think they'll try to go for his head.

I think some of the more reasonable thinking Democrats will try to pull them down and away from walking off that cliff, but you've got to know these people. John Conyers is left of the left.

MATTHEWS: Let me ask you about something I know you care a lot about, and a lot of people watching do, which is abortion.

Even a lot of people who oppose abortion legalization or oppose its de-legalization don't like it. Do you think if the Democrats get back in they're going to push for—reverse the ban on partial birth?

DELAY: Absolutely.

If you're in charge, you're going to advance your agenda. And they'll try to reverse everything that we've done, not just abortion. I mean, that's one...

(CROSSTALK)

DELAY: ... that's one of the regrets I have. I wanted before I ended my career to end abortion as we know it. And I'm not going to be able to do that.

I hope to work on it outside the House.

MATTHEWS: OK. That's an open door. I want you to talk about that door. You mentioned that last night when you gave me the heads up. You said although you're leaving the House, you're not leaving the conservative movement. Tell me how you can work outside?

DELAY: Well, one the things that this decision-making process showed me, that I have a lot of friends in the conservative movement, a lot of friends that are leaders of the conservative movement. They value my talents and they listen to me, and I think I can work with them, unify that conservative movement.

One thing that I've always been jealous of the Democrats on the left is that they work together. I mean, you have pro-abortionists working for labor policy, you have labor policy—labor unions working for abortion policy. The greenies work for each other—and they work for each other.

We are fractured, and always have been fractured, mainly because we are individualists. But I think I can be a unifying force. I can speak out around the country about the conservative agenda. And I'm looking forward to that. I'm kind of excited about it.

MATTHEWS: Can you do it without being the hammer? I mean, now that you're a congressman, you can direct funds to people, you can direct legislative responsibilities to people, you can help people get better committee assignments or deny them re-upping.

What can you do on the outside that enforces your will? I'm serious.

DELAY: The moniker "hammer" was given to me by the left—The Washington Post.

MATTHEWS: But you love it.

DELAY: No, I did things differently. And they—because the Democrats operate that way, they assumed I did. I invented what is called grow the vote. And it takes a lot of more - a lot more work...

MATTHEWS: We'll come back and talk about your procedures, but when I imagine you walking across the floor of the House to somebody you thought you had corralled, and they went the other way, were you smiling like that, when you walked across the floor?

DELAY: I just had to remind them, your word is everything in the House of Representatives and if you break your word, you need to be reminded of that.

MATTHEWS: We'll be back with Congressman Tom DeLay, who has announced his resignation from the House. He's going to do it in a couple months.

You're watching "Hardball," only on MSNBC.

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