MSNBC "The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Madeleine Dean

Interview

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O`DONNELL: Joining us now is Democratic Congresswoman Madeleine Dean of Pennsylvania. She`s a member of the House Judiciary Committee and was an impeachment manager in the second impeachment trial of Donald Trump.

Thank you very much for joining us tonight. I really appreciate it.

We saw Steve Bannon make the most of his public moment today. He`ll be doing more of that on Wednesday, no doubt. One of the people who knows Steve Bannon well who appeared on this program said weeks ago that this indictment is everything he needs for his business, for his fund raising. That this is everything Steve Bannon wanted.

REP. MADELEINE DEAN (D-PA): Surely this is a side show.

And good to be with you, Lawrence. I apologize. I have a little bit of a sore throat.

And surely Mr. Bannon might enjoy the side show that he is offering himself. It`s a show for one, maybe for two today.

But what I think we should celebrate is the rule of law. Last Friday when the federal grand jury indicted Mr. Bannon in contempt -- and held him in contempt of Congress and he needed to surrender himself today to the court, to the rule of law. We celebrate a good day for the rule of law.

[22:34:51]

DEAN: We also celebrate today -- you were just talking with Senator Murphy -- we celebrate the rule of law today when that huckster, whose name I will not use, attempted to put out and continue to put out and profit from grievous, scandalous -- I don`t even know what you call them -- conspiracy lies around one of the greatest tragedies in our country history for our children.

The rule of law prevailed. Today and last week. And it will prevail some more.

O`DONNELL: That is an interesting take. And joining those two stories that way. What do you see going forward with the January 6th committee -- the Mark Meadows defiance of the subpoena? We`re going to have to see more strengthening of the rule of law in order for that committee to continue to do its work.

DEAN: Well, it is doing its work. It`s doing it with good speed. And fortunately now we have a Department of Justice that actually understands that it is a Department of Justice and it represents all of us. It does not represent a party of one like Mr. Trump and the previous Department of Justice. So I look forward to the continued work of the committee.

What I saw, you know, for example today with Mr. Bannon coming forward is Mr. Meadows prepare yourself. You know this. You were a former member of Congress. You are not the same clown show I think that Mr. Bannon has proven himself to be.

But Mr. Meadows is in a very a deep place. We know that in the days leading up to the insurrection, Mr. Meadows spent a tremendous amount of time around the president. And it will be very important to understand exactly what advice and counsel he was giving him. What advice and counsel did he give the president as the insurrection took place, not just leading up to it but as it took place.

We saw today with some of the he reporting from Jonathan Karl. Some of the absurd statements by the president where he said when asked, you know, what about your vice president? Did you worry about him. After all they were chanting "Hang Mike Pence" in the Capitol where I was doing my job.

And the president he didn`t say I checked in on Mike Pence. I checked in on my vice president. He`s my governing partner. He said I thought he was ok. I heard he was in good shape. And then pivoted immediately as the narcissistic former president does to it was a fraud. But of course common sense would tell you that, of course, there would be an attack on his own vice president.

We have to reject this insane antidemocratic, authoritarian, narcissistic movement of the former president that sadly has infected so many others.

O`DONNELL: Yes. In that passage of that interview that you just were quoting, it sounded like Donald Trump was saying it was perfectly ok that they were threatening to hang Mike Pence. Let`s actually listen to the tape of that.

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JONATHAN KARL, JOURNALIST: Were you worried about him during that siege? Were you worried about his safety?

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, I thought he was well protected. And I had heard that he was in good shape. No because I had heard he was in very good shape.

But -- but no --

KARL: You heard those chants. That was terrible. I mean those -- you know - -

TRUMP: He could have -- well, the people are very angry.

KARL: They were saying hang Mike Pence.

TRUMP: It`s common sense, Jon. It`s common sense that you are supposed to protect -- how can you -- if you know a vote is fraudulent, right? How can you pass on a fraudulent vote to Congress?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: So, after Jonathan Karl says they were saying hang Mike Pence. He says it`s common sense, meaning it`s common sense for those people to be angry that Mike Pence didn`t do what they wanted him to do and so, of course, hang Mike Pence.

DEAN: It`s madness. It`s absolute madness. And we`re talking about the president speaking after he knew of the desecration, the destruction, the harm, that people died, people were maimed, police officers were attacked in a medieval kind of way.

And guess what? The president did nothing for hours. Can you imagine any other president with that kind of an attack on our Capitol? Of course we can`t even imagine that kind of an attack on our Capitol. Not moving for four hours? Not doing a single thing. Let alone not checking in on his own vice president.

He was desperate. We know in the reporting that in the days -- the final days leading up to January 6 that he was absolutely desperate. He wanted Mike Pence to do whatever he could to overthrow the certification of the election that we were there to do our constitutional duty.

And you remember what the president in his most vulgar way said. You can be a patriot or you can be something else that I will not repeat. This president, that former president never had any regard for the oath, for the rule of law, for our constitution.

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DEAN: He wanted to claim power. And he would bully anybody who was in his way including his own vice president who they threatened to hang.

O`DONNELL: Congresswoman Madeleine Dean, thank you very much for joining us tonight. We always appreciate it.

DEAN: Thank you very having me.

O`DONNELL: Thank you.

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