CNN "Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Kirsten Gillibrand

Interview

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BLACKWELL: All right, Phil Mattingly, Lauren Fox, thank you so much.

With me now, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, Democrat of New York.

Senator, thanks for being with me.

Let's start here with climate, which is the -- I guess the standoff of the day. We have heard from Senator Manchin that he does not support a carbon tax, which is supposed to be the fill-in for the clean energy program, which he does not support.

Can you achieve the president's goals and satisfy the members who want substantive climate legislation without either of those programs?

SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D-NY): I think we can.

I think that we are in a moment in history where severe weather has been such a burden on so many communities across the United States, and so many families have suffered. We have lost lives, we have lost homes, we have lost businesses, and I think Congress will come together.

And I think there will be provisions in this bill that can address global climate change and severe weather. And I think they will get to a final goal of making real, real change with regard to global climate change.

BLACKWELL: But how do you get there?

Because what we have heard from Senator Manchin -- and, listen, we understand that he's representing a coal energy state there in West Virginia. He's been a no on many of the got-to-do's for some of the progressives in the Senate.

How do you get there?

GILLIBRAND: I think there's ways to put a price on carbon by incentivizing renewables, incentivizing clean energy, incentivizing being more energy-efficient, and there's ways to do that.

And I think that that is what the committees are working on.

BLACKWELL: But those are the grants and the tax breaks that Senator Manchin has said no to.

GILLIBRAND: I don't think he said no to anything in specific terms. I think he is negotiating in good faith with the White House to get to a place where he feels comfortable.

BLACKWELL: OK, so let's turn now to paid leave.

First banner question here, is there a scenario in which a bill without federal paid leave gets your vote?

GILLIBRAND: I think we will get a bill that has federal paid leave in it. I just left the caucus meeting. And I made a presentation to the caucus, including Senator Manchin, about what families are facing all across New York, all across West Virginia and all across the country.

We had challenges before COVID. But COVID laid bare what families are experiencing. Families had to leave the work force. Women, over five million women had to leave the work force because of the challenges of COVID, because schools were closed, day cares were closed, kids had to learn remotely.

And millions of women have not even been able to return to the work force because of these challenges. And so I have just made the case that, if you want people who want to be working, they need the structural support, the economic supports to do it. They need to have paid leave when they have a new infant and want to nurse the baby, or have a parent, a mother who's dying, and they need to be by their side, or a family member, a child, who's sick and needs to be cared for.

That is the realities of Americans today. And if you want those workers to go back to work after these life emergencies, in West Virginia, 40 percent of moms will be more likely to go back to work if they have paid leave after having that child.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

GILLIBRAND: And so I made that case directly to Senator Manchin, to the entire caucus about what life is like.

And that's what the Build Back Better agenda is. It's about families. It's about people. It's about helping people in times of great need.

BLACKWELL: I hear that.

GILLIBRAND: And you can't pick one without the other. You can't say, well, I'm OK with paid leave, but not OK with child care, because if you help that mom nurse that baby for that first three months, but then there's no child care for that baby to go into, well, then mom can't go back to work.

You need to do both.

BLACKWELL: I hear you, Senator.

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GILLIBRAND: And so I made that case. I think we will get there.

So what I'm saying is, I'm optimistic that we will get there.

BLACKWELL: You're saying that you think you will get there, you're optimistic.

My question was a different one. Is there any scenario in which you would vote for a bill that does not have federal paid leave?

GILLIBRAND: Well, that would be very hard for me to do, because it's very hard for me to say if there's no paid leave in the bill that I would vote for it.

BLACKWELL: OK.

GILLIBRAND: So I will wait and see. And I will work as hard as I possibly can to make sure that something as important as paid leave is in this bill.

But all the things we have talked about are important. And I'm going to work with my colleagues to get everyone to yes.

BLACKWELL: Let me ask you. I'm going to stay on paid leave for a moment.

Of course, the question is, how much will this bill cost? Twelve weeks of paid leave, family paid and medical leave, federal government covering 60 percent of it. Where are you willing to negotiate, the length of time, the cap per month, the percentage that the federal government will pay?

Because the question for some of the moderates is, what is the top- line number and how do you reach that? Where are you willing to budge?

[14:10:02]

GILLIBRAND: So, the top-line number at the end of the day is not the question.

The question is, are you going to create a program that's going to meet the need of families? Long term, we want to get 12 weeks for all life events, because that's pretty much the bare minimum. If we can't get to 12 weeks for all live events on day one, then we will get to X- number of weeks for all life events on day one.

And that X, again, it doesn't matter as much as creating the safety net that families desperately need. And so if we have an arbitrary limit on how much we can invest today, we will meet that arbitrary limit and, over time, fight for more resources. It's important to create the program, it's important to make it permanent, to make sure it lasts a full 10 years.

And it's important that it is gender-neutral for all life events. Those are the most important aspects. And how much it covers and up to how much of income that it covers, those can be debatable.

The way we wrote the program and the way it was last negotiated had a cap of $5,000 a month. That means if your income is $60,000 a year, you could get full wage replacement, I suggest that, if it's full wage replacement, that you tax it, so it's progressive.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

GILLIBRAND: So, for example, if you're very wealthy, you have a tax rate of 40 percent. If you are a low-wage worker, you might have a tax rate of 10 percent. That's fair.

But if you have that cap at $5,000 a month, then the most anybody's going to get is a $5,000-a-month benefit.

BLACKWELL: So, what has been the response?

GILLIBRAND: And that makes it a very progressive and it makes it a very means-tested program, which is in lines with what Senator Manchin has said he's looking for in a lot of these programs.

BLACKWELL: So what have you heard from -- you made your case.

What have you heard from some of the moderates who are wondering about the overall cost?

GILLIBRAND: I have had favorable responses to date that, because it's progressive, because it is means-tested, because it seems reasonable, because it is something that's needed, because it's something families watch, because it's bipartisan, I think 74 percent of Republicans support it, and 80 something percent of Democrats and Americans support it, it's widely supported across the country.

Its time has certainly come. And we're the only industrialized nation in the world that doesn't have paid leave. But, again, we have to keep working, keep listening, keep finding common ground, which I intend to do with my colleagues, until we all get to yes.

And if we have to shorten the amount of time that is covered, shorten the amount of resources that are provided, those things can be debated. It's more important that we answer the call of the need, which is the support for families when they need to care for a loved one.

BLACKWELL: Understood.

Well, Senator, let me ask you this. There are some of your colleagues on Capitol Hill who are dissatisfied or underwhelmed by the approach from the White House, the lack of forcefulness, the way some are describing it, that the president is involved.

How would you rate? Are you satisfied with how the president is approaching the negotiations?

GILLIBRAND: I am.

And I have to tell you, President Biden has been on this every day for the last several months. And I have been to the White House twice and met with the president and spoke to him about paid leave, about other issues. And he has not only briefed me on his negotiations and the negotiations he had that day. He's on this every single day.

And he has been not only talking to my colleagues in the House and the Senate repeatedly, but our leadership. And he's not going to let go until he gets it across the finish line. And I think that's why he's the president of the United States. BLACKWELL: If he's a moderator, why not get both sides in one room

together at the White House, instead of progressives in the morning or moderates in the afternoon?

GILLIBRAND: I think he is negotiating in the way he believes is most effective.

BLACKWELL: All right, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, thank you.

GILLIBRAND: Thank you.

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