MSNBC "All In with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Mazie Hirono

Interview

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Today, Democrats in the Senate Judiciary Committee announced they would hold a hearing to examine the Texas abortion ban and the Supreme Court`s abuse of its shadow docket.

Democratic Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawaii is a member of that committee and she joins me now.

Senator, what is the agenda for Senate Democrats to deal with this law?

SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D-HI): Well, one of the things they`re going to do is to have a hearing on the Supreme Court`s abuse of power by abusing the shadow docket to do what they did. They`re letting the Texas law stand. I`m glad you used the word "abused" because that`s exactly what the Supreme Court is doing.

HAYES: Speaker Pelosi said there will be a vote on a piece of legislation co-written by Ayanna Presley who was my guest on the program last night that would codify the Roe standard into law, into federal law. Is there appetite for that in the Senate? Obviously, we need to pass it in both houses for it to become law.

HIRONO: There`s an appetite for that and the companion bill that 48 Democratic senators signed. I am one of them. So when we have this hearing on the abuse of the shadow docket, what is going to come out I think is the need for Supreme Court reform and that --

HAYES: What do you mean by court reform?

HIRONO: Court reform, the fact we have a Supreme Court abusing its powers so we can talk about term limits for the Supreme Court, we can talk about applying ethics provisions to the Supreme Court, we can increase the number on the Supreme Court, we can cycle circuit court judges through the Supreme Court. So I think what is going to happen is when it comes to -- when it becomes obvious that the Supreme Court, which, by the way, has used the shadow docket 28 times during the Trump years and only four times during the entire Bush and Obama terms, this is an abuse.

So you use the shadow docket where you don`t have to even say who is voting, who is, you know, doing the position that uses the shadow docket and there`s no hearing. There`s nothing. So there`s no accountability they hope, but in this case we have four justices who filed dissents on what the five other justices did.

HAYES: Forty-eight, I can`t help but notice, is not 50.

HIRONO: That`s right.

HAYES: That seems to me -- well, that is sort of the issue, right? You have the filibuster but before you get to the filibuster, you can`t beat 52 votes with 48. I wonder if it changes the calculation of any of your Senate colleagues.

HIRONO: I hope so, because to me we need filibuster reform also. At least you have a shot at it if you don`t have to have 60 votes to codify Roe v. Wade at the federal level. We also need to codify it at the state level such as what the state of Hawaii did many years ago. There are a number of states that have codified Roe v. Wade.

That should be happening at the state level, which is why all of the people I see marching now in the streets, having awakened to what is happening to women all across the country, I hope that they will make sure that their states codify Roe v. Wade.

[21:10:06]

HAYES: Yeah, you make a good point here which is that in the same way that very conservative states have taken huge steps constantly to sort of push against abortion rights and abortion restrictions, there are opportunities for states that have elected representatives who believe in abortion rights to expand access and to enshrine and protect it.

HIRONO: Yes. And so this is why we need to be mobilized at all levels. It is not just Congress that can take action, but it is all of the state legislatures. And, as I said, when it becomes clear that this is actually a very activist, conservative Supreme Court where, you know, the rule of law and precedent out the window when they feel like it.

So Citizens United, that was -- you know, that opened the door to billions in dark money being spent in the Shelby County that has a major part of the voting rights law, to Janus which stymied the public sector unions and their ability to collect dues. These are all done by a very activist court peopled with folks like the Trump nominees, Trump appointees, all of whom I voted against.

HAYES: Do you think -- there`s polling that indicates liberals and Democrats think highly of this court, they think highly of John Roberts. They approve of the court. They particularly approve of John Roberts. What do you think about that?

HIRONO: John Roberts at least cares about the institution of the Supreme Court. I think he cares that the Supreme Court is not seen as just some kind of ideological right wing court. I think he cares about that. But his colleagues do not, and clearly, the three people that are the Trump appointees, they basically do not. They are very ideologically driven in my view.

HAYES: Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawaii, thank you so much.

HIRONO: Thank you. Aloha.

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