CNN "The Lead with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview with Marc Pocan

Interview

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TAPPER: All right. Ryan, thanks so much.

Here to talk about all of this, Democratic Congressman Marc Pocan of Wisconsin. He's part of the House Progressive Caucus. He's going to meet with President Biden in the next hour.

Congressman, thanks for being here.

If the bipartisan infrastructure bill comes up on Monday and the larger budget deal has not already passed, will you vote no to kill the infrastructure bill?

REP. MARC POCAN (D-WI): Thanks for having me, Jake.

I think as we've said all along in the House, these two bills are going to move together. So I don't anticipate there will be a vote set up for failure, but I know there's myself and 50 members who would vote no if we can't get the entire Biden agenda done. It's really important that we do that, and I think that's what we're working towards.

TAPPER: You know that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi supports passing the $3.5 trillion budget reconciliation deal. So what does it matter if infrastructure passes first? I mean, that does have bipartisan support.

POCAN: Yeah, I think the problem is there's a few folks in the Senate who have been a little bit less clear that they're committed to seeing the bigger bill get done, and these are twin bills. But much like the movie "Twins" with Schwarzenegger and Danny DeVito, we look at one bill as a little bigger. And I think the best way to ensure that is to do like Speaker Pelosi said. We're going to vote on these two bills together.

So, we're really standing behind the president and getting his agenda done and hope that everyone will join us to get these two bills done together as we've said for months.

TAPPER: Is there anything's that president Biden could say to you or offer to you that would convince you that it would be okay to let the infrastructure bill pass first?

POCAN: Yeah, my guess is he's really working on the folks that are maybe more hesitant to get this done.

I mean, we completely have his back. We've already gone from his request of $6 trillion, compromised down to $3.5 trillion, and I don't think that you can go much farther without making sure that we want to make sure people get child care, universal child care. We want to make sure we have community college available for everyone.

We want that tax break for families, via child tax credit. We want to make sure people have paid leave and Medicare is expanded just like the president does. And the best way to ensure all of those things happen is to take both these bills up together. It will create millions of jobs and that's ultimately what the president wants. That's what we want.

And I think, you know, it really will happen. It's just a matter of a few people are just going to have to, I think, come around to the fact that everything that's in these packages is good for their constituents. They need to be here on behalf of their constituents, not the special interest here in Washington.

TAPPER: To play devil's advocate for a second. You are a progressive from a safe district in Wisconsin. Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema are moderates and they're from states where a Republican is just as likely to be elected as a Democrat -- more so in West Virginia for Manchin. And they just don't share the same views of this budget bill that you do and that progressives do.

From their point of view, you're forcing them to do something that they don't think is right for the country and you are holding a hostage in something the -- you know, that has bipartisan support.

POCAN: Actually, I would say that the president's proposal is exactly what their districts need. I don't think there's anyone in Arizona or West Virginia that doesn't need child care to be possible. That doesn't need a tax break for average working people who have children, who doesn't need an expansion of Medicare. So, all of those are going to benefit their constituents.

I think the problem is here in Washington a lot of special interests don't want to pay their fair share to get these things done and they get in the ear of some members. We have to remind people who elected them and who they serve. If we do that, I guarantee Joe Biden is doing the right thing for the country.

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We're having his back on getting those things done and they, too, can make sure their constituents benefit from these very proposals.

TAPPER: So, you don't think it's that Senator Manchin or Senator Sinema or Congressman Gottheimer, you don't think it's that they have issues with all the spending and deficits and some of the other items in the $3.5 trillion bill. You think it's that special interests are telling them what to do?

POCAN: Well, there are no deficits in these bills. It's completely paid for, right, by people who make more than $400,000 a year and by corporations that either don't pay taxes or hide their money overseas. So, clearly, those are the interests that are somewhat concerned and trying to get to members and we hear it as well in our district. There's some folks, those special interests are talking out loud.

But for the average person, that's -- they're going to see their costs lowered. They're going to get a tax break. They're going to have millions of jobs created. Many that are tackling climate change, and it is paid for. So there's not a deficit to be worried about if you're one of those people.

You should be worried about whether or not you're delivering those very benefits to the people in your districts or whether, you know, big pharma and other special interests are going to win. I would err on the side of my constituents if I was them.

TAPPER: Have you talked to any of the leading moderates like Josh Gottheimer from New Jersey to try to find a compromise or to tell him that you think he's under the control of special interests?

POCAN: Yeah, I think they just have to take a look at what they're hearing in their district. I can assure you what they're hearing is people in their district who want these very things and I think if they actually look at the reasons they came to Washington, they'll come around to this.

But don't forget, Monday is a very arbitrary date. If it takes another week, even another two weeks to get this done right, we're all working together. I don't think this is a battle, again, among moderates and progressives. This is a battle to make sure that we get the president's agenda done.

It's a good agenda. The American people are going to benefit from this and it will be paid for. It's just those special interests are in the way of get this done and we're going to defeat the special interests.

TAPPER: Democratic Congressman Marc Pocan of Wisconsin, thanks so much for your time today. I hope you have a nice meeting with President Biden.

POCAN: Thank you.

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