CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Adam Kinzinger
Interview
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REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): When they were surrounded by the Taliban. So everybody bears some responsibility for sure. But the only people I hold responsible for the deaths are these evil terrorists and there has to be vengeance on them.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Was the mistake by the Biden administration having an unconditional withdrawal here? In other words, not setting the very simple condition of, yes, we'll leave, but once we get all of our people out and people who worked for us out.
KINZINGER: Yes, this is - this is something I can't understand why it hasn't pivoted to this. Let's keep in mind, the whole August 31st deadline was self-imposed. It was originally -- Joe Biden said he wanted out September 11th. They realize that was pretty bad optics and he backed up to August 31st and it stuck.
You know, the Taliban knows, because they've been on the receiving end of American strength for 20 years, they can't beat us. So they - they understand that they have to, you know, do what we say on that front. Hey, we're going to leave, but we're bringing all the people we need with us.
Instead, I mean I think there's a lot of questions about how did this ISIS bomber get through a Taliban checkpoint. By the way, this - this insistence that the Taliban is at war with ISIS, like they're our newfound friends.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
KINZINGER: That's not true. They want Americans to die as much as anything, the Taliban does.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
KINZINGER: So there's a lot of questions.
And I think, you know, the other question is, when we talk about going after ISIS-K for this attack, how are we going to do it without anybody on the ground?
SCIUTTO: Yes.
KINZINGER: That's going to be difficult.
SCIUTTO: That was my next question because the president is talking a lot about an over the horizon capability. But as you well know, without intel assets on the ground, without boots on the ground, without airbases within the country that allow for, for instance, for greater overflight time for drones, right, as you're trying to track these targets and so on, this is going to be a big test. Are you confident? Do you believe the president can deliver on his promise to hunt these ISIS-K terrorists down?
KINZINGER: You know, I think it's possible we could get a little vengeance in terms of, hey, now we've killed some ISIS-K people. Maybe we'll find the people that planned and organized this. But you're not going to unravel the organization and it's going to be nothing more than I think implementing a few casualties and making us feel good about it.
If you think back in '99, it was, I think, Bill Clinton that launched a few missiles into Afghanistan to go after bin Laden and missed him.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes.
KINZINGER: And so that's it. Because, look, if you look at our -- the execution of our fight against ISIS, which was very successful in Iraq and Syria, we had people embedded with local forces on the ground and air power and intel assets. This is -- unless we have some new magic thing I'm unaware of, it's going to be difficult.
SCIUTTO: Yes, those missile attacks in '88 and '99, a good comparison, right, because the word was they had the targets but by the time the missiles launched the targets weren't there any more because they didn't have great intel on the ground.
As you know, GOP leader in the House, Kevin McCarthy, he's calling for a floor vote on a GOP measure that would limit the ability of the Pentagon to pull out forces on August 31st. Do you support such a measure?
KINZINGER: Well, I mean, it's kind of the devil's in the details. I - you know, I would support something that says we'll leave when the mission's complete, when all Americans are home, when our Afghan allies are home.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
KINZINGER: What I don't think Congress should ever get into the business of is being commander in chief, but also being commander in chief for the purpose of politics. We can be angry at what Joe Biden has done. I am, right? I'm also angry at the setup that has been put here by Donald Trump. But I should never consider my election and domestic politics, particularly at this exactly moment when we're still engaged, you know, as anything but subservient to America's mission to get our people out of there.
SCIUTTO: As you know, there are some republicans who call - who have called for President Biden to resign over this. Do you believe the president should resign?
KINZINGER: I do believe some people on his national security team should resign. That's up to them and it's up to him. But, no, I mean, look, we impeach presidents for high crimes and misdemeanors. This is a very bad decision. Other presidents have made bad decisions, but I'm not going to call on the president to resign for this, nor to be impeached.
Look, we need some stability in our government. And we've gotten to this back and forth where, you know, it's just a constant battle of power, who can take over next year, instead of looking that this country needs some real help and - and we need actually grown up politics for once and not just kind of next-day news cycle politics.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
Looking forward here, the U.N. reports that many thousands of extremists are flooding into Afghanistan, that it's a new Disneyland, in effect, much as we saw with Syria following the ISIS takeover of Syria. Thousands from as far afield as Xinjong (ph) in western China, the Caucuses (ph), the former Soviet states, and elsewhere.
When you look at that, particularly someone like yourself, who fought in Afghanistan following 9/11, should Americans fear Afghanistan as a new location for terrorists to plot and plan attacks on the U.S. homeland?
KINZINGER: I don't like to peddle fear, I like to peddle facts. But, unfortunately, in this case, I think we should be fearful of that.
[09:35:02]
You know, here's the thing, we like to, as Americans, look back at World War II and talk about how strong our country is and how committed we are. And, obviously, World War II is an amazing story of American strength.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
KINZINGER: But lately we've been susceptible to politicians like Rand Paul, Donald Trump and even Joe Biden talking about endless wars, making us feel tired. Yes, we've been in Afghanistan for 20 years. I get it. We had 2,500 troops there. We may need a few more. But the second we pull out, the endless war that everybody wants to quit actually has blown up even bigger. So we have lengthened the endless war by our lack of presence in Afghanistan and giving these people a place to plan and execute attacks.
SCIUTTO: Finally, I want to ask you a personal question, because this is personal for you. You fought there and I know you've lost brothers and sisters in arms in Afghanistan, as well as in Iraq. I've had a feeling in the pit of my stomach these last 24 hours
imagining the families, for instance, of the Marines who thought in days that they were going to be home, to die on the way out, in effect. I'm sure you've been talking to fellow veterans.
How do you talk about this now? What are they feeling right now as they watch this unfold?
KINZINGER: So, it's interesting, you know, veterans aren't monolithic in how we think about policy, so there are some veterans that want to get out of Afghanistan, some, like me, either think, you know, it serves a purpose to stay. But we all feel the same about just kind of this emptiness, right? You know, regardless of how you felt about it, you want to know you achieved something. Obviously, these 13 Marines killed hopefully will be the last killed in that theater. It's a sick feeling.
But the reality is, I think we need to do a little focusing. And I try to remind myself, and my fellow veterans of this, at the people's lives that we did revolutionize and change. There are a lot of people, a lot of women that are journalists and professors now that never would have been without America's involvement.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
KINZINGER: But, geopolitically, it's obviously going to be seen as a failure.
SCIUTTO: Listen, Congressman, we appreciate your service there, the service of other service members as well, and thanks so much for speaking so straightforward.
KINZINGER: You bet. Thanks, Jim.
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