CNN "Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees" - Transcript: Interview with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Interview

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COOPER: Yes, Kaitlan Collins, appreciate it. Thank you.

I want to get perspective now on the President's visit, as well as those trillion dollar fights over infrastructure and Democrats budget resolution from someone who was with the President today. I'm joined now by New York Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

Congresswoman, thanks so much for being with us. Appreciate it. I'm wondering, just from what you saw today, what you heard from the President, were you happy or satisfied with what you heard from President Biden today in terms of his commitment to battling climate change and providing help to New York?

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): Well, you know, I think in the immediate sense -- in the immediate sense, we have been able to help facilitate and working with President Biden and as well as F.E.M.A. in getting one of the fastest ever disaster assistance approvals from F.E.M.A. so that we could help people on the ground and start helping people recover as quickly as possible.

Now, when it comes to climate change, we have to do so much more and the President's agenda, yes, is important. We must pass the Build Back Better Act, but it is not done until it is on the President's desk. And we also need to make sure that we're continuing to fund these priorities.

Right now, reconciliation is really embattled and we have to make sure that we actually bring this legislation home with the Build Back Better Act and making sure that climate is protected, because the fossil fuel industry, in the interest of the fossil fuel industry are very much doing their best to try to, you know, shape both this legislation and making sure that they're trying to pit it and frankly, tank it, compared to the infrastructure act as well.

COOPER: You know, when one talks to experts on climate change, and what, in order to respond effectively, what would need to be done, it is when you actually start to look at the full scope of all the aspects of life that would be impacted and need to be impacted.

I mean, the production of how concrete is made, how steel is made, you know, forming procedures, the electrical grid. It is a huge societal shift. Do you think Americans are ready for that or been kind of prepared for that?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I think we are. I think we absolutely are, because the question is not, if our entire world and our entire society is going to shift because of climate change, it's a matter of how it is going to shift.

So basically, if we do nothing to address climate change, we are going to see the continued destruction of our supply chains, we are going to see our crops not be able to grow in the same way. We will see our infrastructure begin to crumble away.

We will see us not -- we will see the continuation of proliferation of other future pandemics as well. And so that is how our life could change if we do nothing. It will change dramatically. But it could also change dramatically in a positive direction if we do something.

We can create millions of union jobs by rebuilding our infrastructure, shoring up our cities, our rural areas and our suburbs in order to prepare for the climate catastrophes that could come to our shores, but also draw down our carbon output in order to make sure that we prevent future calamities from happening as well,

COOPER: You're obviously from a more progressive wing in the Democratic Party than President Biden, who got elected in part by pledging to work across party lines. And as you clearly know, the bipartisan infrastructure bill seems stalled because Democratic moderates in the senate are balking at the price tag of a separated, but related budget resolution that is key to the House even taking up the infrastructure bill.

Is this split among Democrats? What do you make of it? I mean, is it healthy in your view? There certainly seems to be mistrust.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Well, I certainly don't think it's healthy that ExxonMobil lobbyists are bragging about how many senators, Democrat and Republican that they get to have on speed dial and enjoy exclusive access to shaping the contours of this quote-unquote, "bipartisan infrastructure bill."

I don't think that that's healthy at all. I think the role of dark money and the fossil fuel lobby is extremely unhealthy for our democracy. But the fact of the matter is, is that we've got the people on our side and this is what we continue to say.

You know, they have money, these lobbyists and special interests have money, but we've got people.

The Build Back Better Act has popular support and even going above and beyond that, the Green New Deal has popular support even among Republicans and Independents.

[20:10:08]

OCASIO-CORTEZ: And so what people I think are united behind is the acknowledgement that climate change is human caused, that the burning of fossil fuels, and the continued construction of fossil fuel infrastructure, like what we're seeing with Line 3 in Minnesota must be confronted, if we're going to create a better future for ourselves, and we can do it while creating millions of union jobs.

COOPER: President Biden was just asked this evening about one of the key moderates or often referred to as moderate Democrats opposing the $3.5 trillion reconciliation package and Senator Joe Manchin, I just want to play for our viewers what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Joe at the end has always been there. He's always been with me. I think we can work something out and I look forward to speaking with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Do you -- I don't know if trust is the right word. Do you trust President Biden to strike a deal with Senator Manchin or do you worry about President Biden striking a deal with Senator Manchin? I mean, is there a deal that all Democrats will accept including Manchin?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Well, I think one of the interesting aspects of this situation is that it's not just, you know, Senator Manchin that has leverage. Frankly, the entire party also needs to, quote-unquote, "worry" about that more moderate agenda in the House, because just as we have an extremely slim Senate margin, we also have a very slim House margin.

And I, as well, as many, many members of the Progressive Caucus simply will not vote for Senator Manchin's infrastructure bill unless it is tied together with the Build Back Better Act so that we have an all of the above approach.

So we aren't saying it's either your bill or our bill, but that both of these bills must move forward together or neither will. And for the American people, that's the best case scenario where we are able to address the needs of all communities instead of just the needs of some communities that are represented by a very small sliver of that bipartisan group.

COOPER: I don't want to put you on the spot, but you mentioned fossil fuel industries. It reminded me of something you had tweeted, actually when Senator Manchin voiced his opposition in an op-ed last week, you responded via Twitter on September 2nd, you wrote, "Manchin has weekly huddles with Exxon and is one of many senators who gives lobbyists their pen to write so-called bipartisan fossil fuel bills. It's killing people, our people, at least 12 last night, sick of this, "bipartisan: corruption that masquerades as clear eyed moderation. Fossil fuel corps and dark money is destroying our democracy, country, and planet. All day, our community has been pulling bodies out of homes from the flood, entire families and we're supposed to entertain lobbyist's talking points about why we should abandon people and do nothing? No."

Are you suggesting that Senator Manchin is more interested in pleasing lobbyists than in saving lives from climate change?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I think that in the year 2021, if any Member of Congress, whether it's a member of the House, or whether it's a member of the Senate continues to aid the fossil fuel lobbyists in advancing their agenda over the consensus of science, then they are disconnected from the reality on the ground. And that is simply a fact.

You know, what we've been doing over the last four days, first responders in my community have been pulling out bodies from apartments -- basement apartments in New York City because of these flash floods and the idea that we're going to continue building fossil fuel infrastructure that we're going to continue even in my backyard, continue to try to build things like peaker plants, natural gas, fracking pipelines for fracked gas, is -- it is unconscionable.

We know that the science is in and it says the construction of new fossil fuel infrastructure will endanger people, it will make these storms worse. We have the capacity to transition to clean and renewable energy and create millions of good union jobs in order to transition to both our infrastructure and our energy system, as well as our power grid.

So, I do believe that with all of that evidence that we have, with all of the opportunity that we have, economic opportunity that we have, if we continue to listen to the fossil fuel lobby, and if we continue to allow them to have this infrastructure and have this influence in Washington, we are endangering our constituents and we have to choose the science for once ahead of the lobbyist money.

COOPER: Do you support nuclear? Because there are a lot of, you know, people who will look at this issue and say you know, the capabilities of transporting solar and wind power -- I mean, our electrical grid needs to completely be altered and upgraded. But even then, transporting it long distances and storing it, nuclear is the only answer, at least in the short term.

[20:15:18]

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yes, you know, we've even addressed some of this issue, Senator Markey and I in the drafting of the Green New Deal, which is that, you know, I don't think that there's no position in terms of whether we are pro or anti-nuclear, it's about the amount -- it's about, frankly, it's a logistical question. Can we get an energy mix that is constructed in a 10-year timeline with the IPCC -- in accordance with the IPCC results.

And so, it certainly does not rule out on nuclear. But the issue is, is the construction, the timeline, and making sure that we can also focus on investments like for example, battery storage, and energy storage in our power grid, so that we aren't completely reliant on continual generation, but that we can store energy in times when it's not available.

COOPER: Just last, I want to ask you about something that Texas Governor Greg Abbott just said. He was asked about the Texas abortion bill and why force a rape or incest victim/survivor to carry a pregnancy to term? This is how he responded. I want to play this for our viewers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Why force a rape or incest victim to carry pregnancy to term?

GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R-TX): It doesn't require that at all, because obviously, it provides at least six weeks for a person to be able to get an abortion. So for one, it doesn't provide that.

That said, however, let's make something very clear. Rape is a crime, and Texas will work tirelessly to make sure that we eliminate all rapists from the streets of Texas by aggressively going out and arresting them and prosecuting them and getting them off the streets.

So goal number one in the State of Texas, is to eliminate rape, so that no woman, no person will be a victim of rape.

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COOPER: I'm wondering what you thought when you heard that?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Well, I find Governor Abbott's comments disgusting, and I think there's twofold. One, I don't know if he is familiar with a menstruating person's body. In fact, I do know that he's not familiar with a woman -- with a female or menstruating person's body, because if he did, he would know that you don't have six weeks.

It is that quote-unquote, "six weeks," and I'm sorry, we have to break it down on you know, break down Biology 101 on national television, but in case no one has informed him before in our life -- in his life, six weeks pregnant means two weeks late for your period, and two weeks late on your period, for any person, any person with a menstrual cycle can happen if you're stressed, if your giant changes or for really no reason at all.

So, you don't have six weeks. That's first things first.

The second area of this when he talks about going after rapists and this language of him that he uses about getting rapists off the streets. The majority of people who are raped and who are sexually assaulted are assaulted by someone that they know. And these aren't just predators that are walking around the streets at night. They are people's uncles, they are teachers, they are family friends, and when something like that happens, it takes a very long time, first of all, for any victim to come forward.

And second of all, when a victim comes forward, they don't necessarily want to bring their case into the carceral system. They don't want to re-traumatize themselves by going to court, they don't necessarily all want to report a family friend to a police precinct, let alone in the immediate aftermath of the trauma of a sexual assault.

And so while some victims do use that recourse, and that is something that is completely available, and if that is part of their process, that's great. But this idea that we're going to, quote-unquote, "end rape," when the same type of frankly, rape culture and the same type of misogynistic culture that informed this abortion law to begin with, is also you know, those beliefs are held by the Governor himself and this Texas State Legislature.

Frankly, there are many people in power, as we know from the #MeToo movement that commit sexual assault, that help their friends cover up these crimes. And some of them even serve in the same state legislatures that are voting on these anti -- you know, just these anti-choice bills.

It's awful and he speaks from such a place of deep ignorance, and it's not just ignorance, it is ignorance that is hurting people across this country.

[20:20:05]

COOPER: You said rape culture and misogynistic culture are behind this Texas bill to begin with, can you just explain that? How you feel about that to people?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Sure. So, when we talk about the law that was passed in Texas, we know that anti-choice bills are not about being pro-life, because if they were about being pro-life, then the Republican Party would support, frankly, an agenda that helps guaranteed healthcare, that helps ensure that people who do give birth that don't have the resources to care for a child can have that care for a child.

So we know that none of this is about life. None of this is about supporting life. What this is about is controlling women's bodies, and controlling people who are not cisgender men.

This is about making sure that someone like me, as a woman, or any menstruating person in this country cannot make decisions over their own body. And people like Governor Abbott and Mitch McConnell want to have more control over a woman's body than that woman or that person has over themselves.

And what that shares in -- you know, what that shares with rape culture is that sexual assault is about the abuse of power. And sexual assault is about asserting control over another person.

And the ease with which these men seek to do that to other people is atrocious. It is morally reprehensible, and they cannot even begin to understand the agonizing decisions that people have to make, including in cases of miscarriage, rape and incest.

COOPER: Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Thank you so very much.

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