CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview with Josh Gottheimer

Interview

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REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D-NJ): Well, I think -- and, Dana, thanks for having us.

The Problem Solvers Caucus, which are 29 Democrats and 29 Republicans, a couple of weeks ago put out our framework called Building Bridges. It's $1.25 trillion over eight years. And it's focused on roads, bridges, rails, water infrastructure, resiliency, items like electric vehicles and carbon capture, so many things that are, I believe, really in line with friends in my party, and obviously working very closely with Brian Fitzpatrick, who's here, building a bipartisan package that we believe can get done working together, working closely with our Senate colleagues.

This is about physical infrastructure and something that's urgent, that needs to get done. And we have got bipartisan support for it.

So, what I'd say to anyone, I'm eager for them to actually look at the package to see what we have put forward. And working closely with our senators, and our bicameral senators, and bipartisan group that we're working with, I believe we can get this done. BASH: And, Congressman Fitzpatrick, one of the questions is how to

pay for all of this. It is still a sticking point. Again, you heard Senator Sanders say he doesn't support anything that would raise the gas tax. We have heard that from President Biden as well. Tying it to inflation is another nonstarter for them.

But your fellow Republicans are large saying they don't want to raise taxes on corporations to pay for it. So, what's the solution here?

[09:20:04]

REP. BRIAN FITZPATRICK (R-PA): Yes, thanks, Dana.

The House approach, our bipartisan caucus, has taken, phase one identified the definition, which we did, with -- and our caucus endorsed it with three-fourths of the caucus. Second was the scope. We came to 1.5 -- 1.25 over eight. And then third are the pay-fors.

And that's what Josh and I have been working with the G20. You now have 21 senators, bipartisan. And we have addressed the pay-fors. And we have done it without any tax increases.

Now, should everything be on the table? Of course it should be, because that's part of compromise. Nobody will be totally in love with the plan, but everybody will be OK with it. And that's the whole point of our caucus. That's what our country wants us to do.

BASH: But they're not OK with it.

I will put this to you, Congressman Gottheimer, because it's your caucus, I think, largely not supporting what is in this plan, this bipartisan plan, to -- how to pay for this. I mean, again, you heard Senator Sanders. The White House also doesn't like what is effectively raising the gas tax.

GOTTHEIMER: Well, we have put together a pretty significant list of potential pay-fors, including closing the tax gap and repurposing, some of the COVID dollars, and an infrastructure bank, and public- private partnerships, and user fees.

There's a lot on the table. And we have been working very closely with the White House and with our Senate colleagues, Democrats and Republicans. I actually believe we have got a good list together. Now we're still going back and forth. And that's why we got to stay at the table. I believe we will get there.

That's what you do in a negotiation. But the bottom line is, just because a couple people in the party have said they're against it, I have spoken to a lot of people in our caucus who are strongly supportive of doing something bipartisan on infrastructure, on the physical side infrastructure, that we can actually get done and move forward together with Democrats and Republicans.

It's what the country wants. They want us to work together. And that's -- I really, really believe that's why this is going to get over the finish line. BASH: Let me just stick with you, talking again about progressives,

because, beyond this bipartisan bill that you're working on, as you well know, a lot of the progressives are saying, we're not going to even think about this unless we have a commitment for a broader second bill, which would likely only be passed along party lines, to address issues like expanding Medicare eligibility, paid family leave, and things of that nature.

You only have four votes to spare in the House, never mind the equally divided Senate. So, how is that going to work in the House?

GOTTHEIMER: Well, obviously, this is a tight rope on all sides with a 50/50 Senate and four seats in the House, as you point out.

That's why we have been working very closely with the White House and our Senate colleagues. And I believe, if the White House gets behind it, and we will all get together, that my colleagues in the Democratic Caucus will get on board.

You're always going to have some that disagree. But this is what this is about, just continuing to work at it. And there's no reason why we can't do more down the road and another package. And -- but the bottom line is, right now, what we have said is, let's take a piece of what the president proposed, both in terms of infrastructure and jobs, and focus on where we can get a bipartisan deal done, both in the House and the Senate.

Let's get that done, and then we can move forward. It's about getting to yes on this. And the country, I believe, is desperate for us to work together. And that's what we're very focused on.

BASH: Well, on that note, people are probably looking at the screen, saying, OK, this is a chair and a co-chair of a Problem Solvers Caucus. A lot of people are saying, well, wait a minute, this is anachronistic, unrealistic to preach bipartisanship in today's climate.

So, let me start with you, Congressman Fitzpatrick.

What should the fact that your group exists, that you're here today on the show talking together about this, what should it tell the American people right now?

FITZPATRICK: Where Josh and I and where our caucus is, is where the overwhelming majority of the American people are. They want people to work together.

They don't want -- they want us to treat government the same way we approach our personal relationships. You don't allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good. You come to the center, you build consensus, and you move forward.

There's always going to be things we disagree with. Leave them on the side of the road. We can come back to that tomorrow, but find what we agree on and move forward. That's what our caucus is all about and getting to yes, as opposed to the more -- the more fringy-type caucuses in Congress that are more about blocking and getting to no.

BASH: Yes.

FITZPATRICK: We stand for something very different.

BASH: Congressman Gottheimer?

GOTTHEIMER: Yes, I think people are sick and tired of the tweets and the yelling and the screaming. They want us to do what they have to do every day and talk to each other and figure it out and accept 80 percent vs. fighting for getting nothing.

If you insist on getting 100 percent of everything, you often get zero. And what we're focused on every time we get together every week, the 58 of us, we talk -- we talk about, how can we get to consensus? And we stay in the room.

We disagree about plenty, but we do it with civility. And I -- and, to me, that's what it should all be about. We build trust in relationships. We agree not to campaign against each other. When we get to 75 percent of us agreeing, we all stand together. And it's -- I know that sounds crazy in this day and age, but I think the country can really use it.

[09:25:02]

The president has talked a lot about that unity and civility. And we're focused on delivering on that. And we're going to keep doing it and why we will stay at the table until we can deliver these roads, bridges, rail, water infrastructure, resiliency, electric vehicles, all the things that I know people care about.

So, we're going to stay at the table until we get it done. That's why I have got such a great partner in Brian and the whole group.

BASH: And as you're talking about bipartisanship on the issues, Congressman Fitzpatrick, I have to ask about some conspiracies that are still happening out there in a very robust way.

Some of your fellow House Republicans are embracing a completely baseless conspiracy that the January 6 Capitol attack was actually a false flag operation carried out by the FBI.

You're not only one of 10 Republicans who voted to impeach former President Trump over the insurrection; you spent 14 years working for the FBI. What's your response?

FITZPATRICK: Well, Dana, I will tell you, being a lifelong FBI agent, I will tell you, starting in New York, ending in L.A., and serving across the globe, when I got sworn in to Congress in 2017, I have been very, very taken back and dismayed at the disrespect that law enforcement is being given across the board, both on the left and the right, quite frankly, on the left with local police, and on the right with the FBI.

In fact, just this week, the FBI got attacked twice, once from my Democrat colleagues on the Intel Committee in which I sit, and then later by my colleagues on the right, who are trying to come up with this theory that somehow the FBI was behind January 6, which is incredibly irresponsible.

And anybody that understands the criminal code, understands law enforcement, Dana, knows that a federal law enforcement agent cannot engage in a conspiracy. It wouldn't be a conspiracy in that case, if they're acting within the scope of their employment.

And if they're acting outside of the scope of their employment, they wouldn't be an unindicted co-conspirator. They would be an indicted co-conspirator. So, the facts don't even follow. And I think the rhetoric is very dangerous, and it's got to stop.

BASH: OK.

And I want to say, on impeachment, I think I got that a little off. But I also want to make -- make clear...

FITZPATRICK: You did.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: ... make clear -- thank you -- that, separate from that, as you just heard -- we heard from your answer, you are definitely not in the big lie category, which is -- which is very important to point out.

But, for both of you, I want to say thank you. Happy Father's Day to both of you. And I appreciate you coming on together.

GOTTHEIMER: Thank you.

FITZPATRICK: Thanks, Dana.

GOTTHEIMER: Thanks, Dana.

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