CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Ben Cardin

Interview

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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Democratic Senator Joe Manchin, the man in the middle now so often, says he opposes passing President Biden's $2 trillion infrastructure plan through budget reconciliation. That is with only Democratic votes. Republicans have proposed a bill that spends about a third of the president's target. Some Democrats, including Manchin, but also Senator Chris Coons, a big Biden ally, have suggested as a result splitting the bills, begin with so-called hard infrastructure, such as roads, bridges, pipes, save other items for a second bill, a second package.

With me now is Democratic Senator Ben Cardin of Maryland.

Senator, good to have you on this morning.

I wonder if you support this idea of splitting the bills. Start with the hard stuff, get some GOP votes and then move on to the other priorities.

SEN. BEN CARDIN (D-MD): Well, Jim, first, it's good to be with you.

Infrastructure is more than roads and bridges. We have to rebuild America. We have buildings, we have energy infrastructure. We need to be bold to modernize our nation. So I support the president's approach.

But I can tell you, as the chair of the subcommittee on infrastructure in the environment of public works committee, we are working in a bipartisan manner to deal with the transportation part of the infrastructure package. So I'm hopeful that we'll be able to make progress on a bipartisan basis, but I do hope that we're bold in dealing with the issue.

SCIUTTO: So you say you're working on a transportation carve out in effect. Are you confident that you've got 10 Republican votes and all the Democrats you would need to pass that?

CARDIN: I am confident that there's strong bipartisan support for a transportation infrastructure bill. We passed it out of our committee in the last Congress by unanimous vote. The Republican numbers on transportation are about $300 billion. That's even more than we passed last year. So I think we can work with Republicans on the transportation and, by the way, also the water bill, which is on the floor this week.

I don't know how these all get married at the end of the day. That decision has not yet been made. So I don't know whether it will be taken up on the floor separately from the rest, but I do know we can make progress on a bipartisan basis to deal with infrastructure.

SCIUTTO: Has the president, to you knowledge, expressed support for that plan, splitting it out?

CARDIN: No, I'm not suggesting splitting it out. What I am suggesting is that our committee, which has jurisdiction over transportation, should be able to put that part together in a -- hopefully in a bipartisan manner. How the bill comes to the floor has not yet been determined.

I'd leave that to Senator Schumer and the president as far as strategies to get to the finish line, but I would hope that we could work together where we can to advance this package.

It's in America's interest. This is not a partisan issue.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CARDIN: Infrastructure has always been bipartisan. Let's work together.

SCIUTTO: I want to talk about how you pay for this, right? Because, as you know, the president's plan, Democratic plan, includes increases in the corporate tax rate, some other increases on capital gains, et cetera.

I've spoken to Republicans, for instance Senator Wicker, who said they would support pay-fors such as perhaps an increase in the gasoline tax, basically a user fee as opposed to an income tax rise.

Have you spoken to any GOP lawmakers open to raising taxes to pay for this or is that a dead issue?

CARDIN: I have talked to Republicans about pay-fors. And I agree with Senator Wicker in that we should try to come together with a bipartisan package for paying for the ongoing expenses. We've been able to do that in the past in regards to transportation programs. So I think we have to be open.

I understand the president's commitment not to hit middle income or those under $400,000 in additional tax burdens. We can look for ways to make sure we live up to that type of commitment and look at additional revenue sources that may help us come together.

SCIUTTO: Interesting. All right. I want to get to policing. Of course the other major issue of debate and at least negotiation at this point between Republicans and Democrats.

[09:35:01]

GOP Senator Tim Scott, one of your colleagues, who, of course, is leading the Republican effort on this, says that a federal ban on chokeholds is, in his words, not off the table.

On that key point, which has been an issue -- a sticking issue to this point, can the two parties come to agreement?

CARDIN: Jim, we're going to have to wait to see whether we can or not. I know that Senator Booker, on behalf of the Democrats, has been negotiating. I have two provisions that are included in the Justice in Policing, the End Racial and Religious Profiling and Law Enforcement, Integrity and Trust Act. I am hopeful that we will be able to get a good part of the Justice in Policing bill done by bipartisan agreement so we can get the bill on the floor.

Take up amendments. Let's vote on amendments. Let's do what the Senate has done in the past. Let's bring an issue to the floor. Let's offer amendments that are relevant to the issue. Let's vote on them. And let's move this bill. It's been --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CARDIN: It's long overdue that we have federal reform of policing.

SCIUTTO: I get the aspiration. And that's commendable. But you know that this -- these efforts have died before. I mean there was a moment last June, after George Floyd's killing, and it didn't get anywhere.

The other sticking point, of course, is lowering the threshold for prosecuting police officers for unjust use of violence from willful in effect to reckless. I mean many -- many Republicans have said, I ain't going there.

Is that an issue that can be overcome?

CARDIN: Well, there's a different majority leader in this Congress than in the last Congress. And the Democrats are committed to getting a bill, not only on the floor, but to the president for signature.

What happened in the last Congress is that the Republicans had a bill that did not do the job. They were not going to negotiate with us and we were unable to get a fair floor (ph) process to resolve the issues.

I am confident, with Senator Schumer's leadership, that we'll be able to bring a bill to the floor and I think we can hopefully work together, get amendments that we can consider, have a more open process and, at the end of the day, get a meaningful bill to the president for his signature.

SCIUTTO: All right, we'll be watching.

As you know, we're approaching the four month anniversary of January 6th and yet Congress has still authorized no new funding for all the many, you know, key recommendations for improving security on Capitol Hill and no agreement on commission, just to study what happened, what the failures were, et cetera. I mean Congress was attacked and Congress still has not acted to protect itself. How do you explain that?

CARDIN: Well, we have taken steps. We have taken steps to make sure that we're protected. The security at the Capitol is quite different than it was on January the 6th. We are sharing information among the different agencies. We've had many hearings on Capitol Hill.

I agree with you, we need a --

SCIUTTO: But I'm talking about the long-term -- as you know, the long- term changes recommended by Russel Honore's commission. They're talking about hundreds, perhaps a thousand more U.S. Capitol Police officers. This stuff's still on the shelf. I'm just curious, why hasn't Congress overcome this?

CARDIN: Well, there are recommendations that are currently being evaluated, including more police officers, including the fencing, how the fencing's going to be handled. Those issues are still being debated. There's not a consensus yet. But I can assure you that the security at the Capitol is different than it was in January, on January the 6th, and we are taking the necessary precautions.

But I agree with you, there should be a commission, an independent commission, that evaluates what happened on January the 6th. And I am disappointed we haven't moved forward with that commission.

SCIUTTO: All right. Well, Senator Ben Cardin, a pleasure having you on the broadcast this morning. We appreciate you joining.

CARDIN: Thanks, Jim.

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