CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Jackson Lee

Interview

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SCIUTTO: The future remains uncertain for a sweeping bill to overhaul policing practices in America. Right now, lawmakers at sharp odds over whether to make it easier to prosecute members of law enforcement criminally. The issue, very important to both Democrats and Republicans. I'm joined now by Texas Congresswoman, Democrat, Sheila Jackson Lee. She also serves on the Judiciary Committee.

Congresswoman, thanks so much for taking the time this morning.

REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D-TX): Thank you for having me this morning, greetings.

SCIUTTO: So let's begin on this sticking point, because the issue here is changing the standard for prosecuting officers from willful intent to reckless disregard. So in other words, from it being a willful but illegal use of force to one that's reckless. I wonder, is that a red line for Democrats, that change?

JACKSON LEE: Well, let's just say it's a red line for me. But I believe in moving the ball forward, and I think it is very important that the discussions that we all are engaged in, that we will continue to be engaged in to move this legislation as swiftly forward as possible so the president can sign it. It is long overdue.

To be honest with you, the Judiciary Committee's been dealing with policing issues for at least two decades, and put forward a number of initiatives that I think, frankly, if they'd been passed 20 years ago, 15 years ago, such as the training component that is in the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act -- definition of excessive force -- we would have been in a different place.

The 242 Section that you speak of, I understand that it may be challenging for some members of the Senate to get their hands around it, but it's a simple test. And I think if we continue discussions, we can find common ground.

So I take, for example, willful means that you came with some purposeful intent. The tragedy of Mr. Toledo, Jim, could we say that officer -- I don't know what the facts will ultimately bear out -- was willful, or could we say that he was reckless?

And so that means that if we're still using the old standard, that police officer is not held accountable. And, frankly, I think the video suggests that that individual, when the investigation goes forward, maybe should be held accountable. That's the fine line that we're talking about, and there are many cases like that that we need to address.

SCIUTTO: The other issue is on qualified immunity. GOP Senator Tim Scott, who's helped leading the efforts in these bipartisan negotiations, he backs an idea that would allow civil litigation against police departments rather than individual officers. Again, a source of disagreement, but I wonder: Do you see that being surmountable as well to get this over the line?

JACKSON LEE: Again, I'm on the train that wants to go forward. Maybe it's a high-speed train, maybe it's a long-distance train, but I'm prepared to just project the fact that there are many members of Congress, House and Senate, that are in the same position.

We'll be open to -- I think what has to happen is that we do something like let's see the language. And so if we see the language and we look to see whether or not a wide swath of people will be protected -- remember now, what is happening is that the modification of qualified immunity is to ensure that both the victim and the officer has a chance to be in court and not be thrown out. So we'll be open-minded to the idea in a civil case that the victim has an opportunity to be heard.

SCIUTTO: OK. I want to talk about another issue close to your heart -- that, of course, the issue of voting rights and this slew of new voting restriction laws we're seeing in a number of areas, including in your home state of Texas here. You know the debate, you have President Biden, for instance, in relation to the laws in Georgia, comparing them to Jim Crow; you have Republicans saying he's lying when he makes that comparison. Explain, if you can, how the changes in Texas make it harder to vote in your view?

JACKSON LEE: First of all, Jim, the district that I represent in Texas is what we call a voting rights district, I would not have had an opportunity to go to the United State Congress but for the 1965 Voting Rights Act. Obviously I wasn't elected way back there, but my predecessor, the honorable Barbara Jordan, was. She ran so many times at large, and could never win until the Voting Rights Act came into place.

Is it about race? Yes, it's about race. Is the S.B. 7 bill about race? Yes, in Texas, it is about race. And that is tragic. And the reason why I say that is, they had a solution running for a problem. There was no charges of the question of fraud, both in Georgia and in Texas. There's no widespread fraud, there is no discernible fraud. It was minute, if at best.

[10:45:05] And so we asked the legislature, when schoolchildren don't have enough resources to make up for this terrible pandemic, why are they focused immediately on voting rights? It was because they lost the 2020 election, rather than getting back on their feet, putting their issues forward and running. This is truly about race.

What do you think about a poll watcher -- that is, not anyone officially connected to the poll -- a poll watcher, designated by parties, having a videotape and watching voters while they're voting? Can you tell me what good news is that? It is intimidation, I've seen it, I've seen it in my congressional district, which is a majority minority district.

And so yes, I don't believe this has anything to do with voting rights. We must rush immediately to pass two bills: H.R. 1, that could be merged into H.R. 4, which is the John Robert Lewis Voter Enhancement Bill. That's what the Congress has to do to protect the American people -- and I mean, Jim, all of the American people.

SCIUTTO: Does it need to break -- should it be willing to break the filibuster to pass those voting bills? You know, Democrats -- some, Manchin, Sinema -- oppose that.

JACKSON LEE: This is where I'd like to sit down with my colleagues and really collaborate and have a meeting of the minds, because I think if they understood the original concept of the filibuster, not grounded in the Constitution but grounded in obstructionism, and for the period of time in the 20th century, the southern segregation used it to block every single civil rights initiative, not even law -- every single civil rights initiative.

So frankly, I think the filibuster has ended its relevant time. I believe there should be an opportunity for the minority. I'd like to see some options that minorities could have -- when I say that, the minority party in the Senate, whoever it might be -- would have the ability to have their voices heard.

But in this instance, the president's job plan, the voting rights bill, the George Floyd bill, I frankly believe that we need to find a way to work with as many people as possible, but yet not have it blocked by a few. And not these crucial elements that will help heal the nation. All of these bills will bring the nation together.

SCIUTTO: Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas, thanks so much for joining us this morning.

JACKSON LEE: Oh, thank you for having me, look forward to seeing you again. Get out and get vaccinated, the Congressional Black Caucus is initiating a GOTV, Get Out To be Vaccinated.

SCIUTTO: Listen to that, folks, it's the right thing to do. And we'll be right back.

[10:47:41]

JACKSON LEE: Thank you. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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