CNN "Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees" - Transcript: Interview with Jim Himes

Interview

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COOPER: Yes. Dana Bash and Jim Acosta, thanks.

Joining us now a central figure in the last impeachment hearing, Connecticut Democratic Congressman Jim Himes. Congressman, your reaction to the President being banned from Twitter. And frankly, do you think this week's insurrection could have been avoided if Twitter had maybe taken the step before?

REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT): I have a very mixed reaction to the President being removed from Twitter. Anderson, it's not being talked about enough, but in addition to accountability for what the President has done, there is a lot of thought being put into how -- is there any way to remove him from the Oval Office?

You know, this is a man who incited a situation where the presidential line of succession, the Vice President, the Speaker of the House, the Speaker Pro Tem of the Senate were at risk. There appears to have been -- we don't know the whole story -- but a break in the military chain of command with respect to the deployment of the National Guard.

The issues don't get more serious than that, Anderson. And so, there's a lot of thought not exactly about accountability. That's a whole other conversation that will extend for the year.

But to answer your question, when I heard that the President's Twitter account had been revoked, you know, I thought, well, that's good. That's one means of not inciting violence. But as your guests were pointing out on the show, how is he psychologically going to react to that?

Again, I'm very focused on the fact that this is a man who still is in charge of American nuclear forces. He is still the most powerful man in the planet. And guess what? I bet he is more than a little grumpy right now. So I don't quite know how to think about that.

But I do think that it doubles down the importance of thinking about those ways that, you know, low probability that they may be that could separate this man from the ability to launch a nuclear strike, amongst other things.

COOPER: Well, I mean, it doesn't seem like the 25th Amendment would require Vice President Pence taking action with a majority of the Cabinet, I guess, in secret so that the President can fire them first. And then the President would have a chance to essentially, you know, say that he is completely capable of continuing on, then they would have to kind of counter that. That does -- that just seems highly unlikely, correct? HIMES: Well, it's all highly unlikely. And, yes, of course. And

that's, of course, what makes this a very nervous, very nervous moment.

Look, when you wake up to the news and hear that the Speaker of the House -- the Speaker of the House, who is not in the military chain of command is talking to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff about safeguards on our nuclear assets. That's just not -- this is not a conversation that I ever imagined that we would be having.

So yes, there's no indication that Vice President Pence is going to agree to this. Two Cabinet secretaries and remember, you need a majority of the Cabinet in order to exert the authorities under the 25th Amendment, or by the way, you can also have a commission.

But you know the word, commission, though it may take the Cabinet out of the calculation, Cabinet members like Mike Pompeo almost inconceivable to imagine that that happens.

The very word commission of course, makes you think time and bureaucracy. So you're right, it is a low probability thing, but these stakes are so high that that's where an awful lot of attention is this evening.

[20:15:16]

COOPER: And if President Trump were to be impeached, again in the House, it would of course, then head to the Senate where the prospects would be uncertain. There's frankly no reason to believe there are enough Republican votes there to convict him. Is that -- should that be part of the calculus? Should that be about whether or not the House does it?

HIMES: Well, again, I think you're right, in terms of that as a mechanism for removing the President, I keep coming back to this notion of you know, okay, his Twitter has been taken away. But yes, what about the nuclear trigger?

You're right, the probability is low. Look, you know, it would take some time in the House as Dana Bash pointed out, even moving at warp speed. And there's no reason to believe that Mitch McConnell would even reconvene the Senate for a trial prior to the 20th of January.

So, you know, when you talk about impeachment, I think you're really at least again, coming back to this question about can he be taken out of the Oval Office. You're really talking about accountability, which is essential and important. Our country will never get back to normal until people are held to account for their seditious and their violent actions.

But you're also talking -- and this is my, I guess, second observation on how a discussion of impeachment is valuable. You know, we haven't talked yet about the possibility that he might be persuaded to resign. That actually is, that's low probability, but it may be higher probability than these other things.

And of course, if a second impeachment is on the table, maybe that conversation is a little bit more probable.

COOPER: Congressman Jim Himes, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

HIMES: Thank you.

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