MSNBC "Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell - Transcript Interview with Jason Crow

Interview

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Congressman Crow, you were one of the House impeachment managers who

prosecuted the case against President Trump in the United States Senate,

the impeachment case. If you had known this information to the extent that

it has been developed tonight last year, might it have been included in an

impeachment investigation of this president?

REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): Good evening, Lawrence.

It very well might have. You know, it`s hard to tell right now. But I can

say that it fits the overall pattern and practice. This president`s pattern

of neglecting his duties, of not relying on our intelligence agencies, even

refusing to hear information that he doesn`t want to hear continues. It`s

dangerous for the country, and that`s why we made the case so ardently

earlier this year for his removal, because there are troops serving around

the country and the world that rely on a president who`s engaged and

willing to discharge his duty, and it`s very clear this president will not

be that person.

O`DONNELL: John Bolton is refusing to publicly confirm that he told Donald

Trump verbally all of this information because he says that is classified

and it may very well have been part of his book that was removed for

classification reasons.

But let`s listen to what John Bolton said today in a radio interview.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: The president has repeatedly

not been able to see the importance in safeguarding America from another

9/11 or other terrorist attacks of making sure the Taliban doesn`t take

over again. A lot of these things he just puts out of mind, and it`s

unfortunately not unusual that when something comes up, whether it`s

intelligence or publicly available information that isn`t what he wants to

hear, he just turns a blind eye to it.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Michael McFaul, your reaction to the situation as it exists

tonight after we just heard what John Bolton has said and with your

experience dealing with Russia, where do you see this story as of tonight?

MICHAEL MCFAUL, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA: Well, Lawrence, it`s what

you said at the outset. If he knew about it, if the president knew about

this intelligence, then it`s just extraordinary and shocking that he`s

still proceeded to do nothing about it.

But more than that, he made some policy decisions after that. He invited

Putin to the G7. He was -- he made the decision to withdraw troops from

Germany. But if he didn`t know about it, just to get to your other point,

that`s equally damning.

You know, Before I went to Moscow, I served three years at the National

Security Council for President Obama. It`s just extraordinary to me,

shocking. It never would have happened, as Vice President Biden just said,

that the president wouldn`t read his PDB.

But remember, the national security adviser, people like me, I read the PDB

every single day. Those people that they didn`t bring this to his attention

is also equally shocking. It just means that the interagency, the national

security process for protecting America, and now we`re pro-talking about

protecting American soldiers in harms way in Afghanistan, has been broken.

It just doesn`t seem like it works anymore.

O`DONNELL: Well, Speaker Pelosi offered a theory for why they might not

tell Donald Trump, and that`s the unfortunate part of this for the Trump

White House is that if you want to accept the Trump defense that he didn`t

know, it becomes fascinating to ponder why he didn`t know.

Let`s listen to Nancy Pelosi -- the theory that Nancy Pelosi offered as to

why they just might not ever tell Donald Trump information like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The question is whether the

president was briefed, if he was not briefed, why would he not be briefed?

Were they afraid to approach him on the subject of Russia, and were they

concerned that if they did tell him that he would tell Putin?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Congressman Crow, a lot of people are saying they`re afraid to

bring up anything negative about Russia with Donald Trump, and making it as

if they`re just afraid of, you know, sparks of anger at the office or

something like that. Nancy Pelosi raises this to a much more important

level.

Are they afraid to tell him that, because he functions in effect as a

Russian agent handing over to Vladimir Putin everything that would be of

interest that the White House might know about Vladimir Putin?

CROW: I don`t think anyone has the information to say that. I don`t see any

evidence that, you know, he`s an agent in any way.

But what I do know to be true, I do know to be true is there`s a lot that`s

very difficult to explain, and I do know to be true that people don`t want

to deliver bad news to this president if it involves Russia, because they

have been fired before when they have. He doesn`t want to hear it.

And at the same time, there`s lots of negative intelligence, lots of

actions coming out regarding Russia, this president is actively lobbying

for the president to join the G7. He`s pushing back on bipartisan

congressional sanctions imposed on Russia. The only reason he signed them

is because we passed them in a veto proof majority. So there is an affinity

for Russia that I just don`t know, I can`t explain.

So I try to stick with the facts of what I do know. But there`s also a lot

we don`t know.

O`DONNELL: Michael McFaul, what is Russia`s incentive here if they are, in

fact, paying for American soldiers to be killed in Afghanistan?

MCFAUL: Well, I`m just speculating, but I thought about these issues a lot

and dealt with President Putin and Prime Minister Putin. Remember, he sees

us as the enemy, the United States of America as the enemy. Not necessarily

President Trump, but our country. He wants to weaken our country anywhere

he can. And if he can get us bogged down in Afghanistan to end, you know,

keep us there, that is in Russia`s national interest as defined by him.

Lawrence, I want to point out it wasn`t always that way. Just several years

ago, Russia was cooperating with us when President Medvedev was in the

Kremlin. But since Putin has come back, he`s constantly escalating,

violating, by the way, rules of the game in the international system. He

doesn`t care about international laws or norms. And this seems another

escalation in that.

And it`s just shocking. I want to underscore how shocking and completely

unprecedented it is that the president of the United States, despite all of

that`s escalation, continues to have one consistent foreign policy. That

is, he wants to be friends with Putin.

I don`t know a single person in the Trump administration or the former

Trump administration who agrees with the president on that foreign policy

principle. And now it means that American lives are at stake. Remember,

he`s the commander in chief, as well. He`s not just the president. That

demands a better explanation.

I hope we`ll get to hear more -- including from the congressman and the

oversight to understand that paradox that now I think it`s just shocking.

It`s been that way a long time, and it remains to be that way today.

O`DONNELL: Ambassador Michael McFaul and Congressman Jason Crow, thank you

both for starting off our discussion tonight. Really appreciate it.

CROW: Thank you, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Thank you.

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