CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview With Rep. Jason Crow

Interview

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As House Democrats work through the weekend to prepare for the Senate trial perhaps the most unexpected impeachment manager is Congressman Jason Crow. He's a former army ranger and attorney who flipped the Republican seat to win in Colorado and he went from not supporting Nancy Pelosi bid for House speaker to becoming one of her choices to prosecutors the case against President Trump. Joining me is Colorado Congressman Jason Crow.

Congressman, thank you so much for being here.

REP. JASON CROW (D-CO), HOUSE IMPEACHMENT MANAGER: Good morning. Good to be on.

KEILAR: So just last night you saw this, the Trump legal team put out a scathing six-page response to your impeachment trial memo calling impeachment -- quote -- "brazen and unlawful." Quote -- "highly partisan and reckless" and it says that President Trump categorically and unequivocally denies each and every allegation. And it says that neither article of impeachment even constitute an impeach -- an impeachable offense at all. What's your response to that?

CROW: Well, my response is this fits the president's pattern. He continues to deflect off of his own behavior, trying to attack the messenger. My immediate response is let's call the witnesses then. He has said that his call was a perfect call. He has said that he has done nothing wrong, so let's have the people that are in the best position to confirm that, come in and testify before the U.S. Senate.

It is what over 70 percent of the American people are asking for. The president deserves a fair trial. The American people deserve a fair trial so let's have the fair trial.

KEILAR: When you found out you were an impeachment manager, was this a complete surprise to you?

CROW: I was surprised. I hadn't been lobbying for this, was called in to speak with the leadership and I was surprised to asked. That was -- humbled to be asked to represent my colleagues in the House of Representatives and the country during this really important trial.

KEILAR: And as I just mentioned in 2019, you did not support Speaker Pelosi as she sought the speakership. I wonder now in retrospect now you are one of these key Democrats in impeachment do you feel differently about the judgment that she has displayed through this process?

CROW: I have always had a fantastic relationship with Speaker Pelosi, and she has done a really great job over the past year navigating the House through a very difficult, very challenging time. She has led in a very thoughtful way.

And I think what the selection of these managers show is that politics doesn't play a part. The speaker has wanted to put a team together that represents the diversity of this country, the diversity of the caucus who can bring the case, make the case regarding national security, abuse of power and all of the things that the president did and make the case in a good way.

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KEILAR: You want witnesses. Do you want Lev Parnas, the indicted associate of Rudy Giuliani who has provided a bunch of documents some of which are incredibly helpful for Democrats, but he is maybe somebody with a credibility issue to say the least?

CROW: Well, I'm not going to get into any one particular witness. I can say the managers are meeting and talking regularly with our team considering who are the best witnesses to bring that case. We have to look at the entire universe of the potential witnesses.

KEILAR: But is it on the table? Because Sherrod Brown just said that he assumes that would be someone Democrats want to hear from.

CROW: Yes. All of the relevant witnesses are on the table. What we have to do is make sure that we have documents too. This cannot be the first trial in American history, the first impeachment trial in American history where we don't have documents and witnesses produced by the president.

KEILAR: Could you use documents from Lev Parnas without hearing testimony from Lev Parnas?

CROW: That is a possibility. I mean, what we have to do is we have to assess all of the time both the documents and the witnesses, and in the many instances like any trial, documents are a great way to assess credibility.

KEILAR: But if you include documents and not the testimony then people will say it is because you don't think that the witness is credible.

CROW: Well, all of this is based on the Senate allowing witnesses. We can talk about the hypotheticals all day long, about which witnesses to call, when to call them, whether or not to they have witnesses or documents or documents that corroborate the witness, and all of the hypotheticals, but all of it is going back to the Senate allowing witnesses and a Senate allowing documents. That is the Senate's decision, because the jurors in this case, the senators are both the trier of fact, but they also establish the rules. So it is time for them to establish fair rules.

KEILAR: Do you think that President Trump committed bribery?

CROW: I think that the president did a lot of things that abused his power.

KEILAR: But bribery, specifically?

CROW: Yes. Specifically, you know, he did attempt to bribe and coerce a foreign government official. In this case the president of Ukraine --

KEILAR: And why -- why isn't that an article?

CROW: We have to look at the entire context of what happened here. That is what this is about. It is about the abuse of power. It's about jeopardizing our national security, our troops. It is about undermining our free and fair elections. The broad context of the pattern of this president is what is really important and that is why we proceeded with the impeachment.

KEILAR: You could have had bribery as an article and then abuse of power as an article, and for instance Alan Dershowitz is going to argue on the Senate floor as he basically just stated that bribery is in the constitution when it comes to impeachment, he will argue for we'll certainly feel that you -- Democrats, would have had a much better case to actually say bribery if you thought it was bribery.

You all said bribery, there -- have been talking points where Democrats are saying this is bribery, and yet it was not an article of impeachment. What that a mistake considering what Alan Dershowitz is going to argue?

CROW: No. Absolutely not. Let's broaden back out here and talk about what is really going on here. The president's team is trying to say that the president can't be indicted, because it is DOJ policy that a standing president or sitting president can't be indicted. At the same time they are also making arguments that the House of Representatives and Congress cannot subpoena documents or witnesses, and that we can't bring an impeachment case, that it has to be a crime. That high crimes and misdemeanors do not include abuse of power and abuse of the public trust.

So if all of the president's arguments are true that a president cannot be indicted, that the abuse of power and abuse of the public trust does not constitute impeachable offense. If that is true, then no president can be held accountable, that the president truly is above the law. So those arguments can't possibly be true. They can't stand because then our entire system of checks and balances would not hold. KEILAR: Congressman Jason Crow, thank you so much for joining us this Sunday.

CROW: Thank you, Brianna.

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