NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Mayor Bill De Blasio, Gov. Larry Hogan, Senator Pat Toomey, and FEMA Administrator Peter Gaynor
Interview
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CHUCK TODD:
And joining me now is the chair of the National Governors Association, it's Governor Larry Hogan of Maryland, and the mayor of New York City, Bill de Blasio. Gentlemen, welcome back to Meet the Press. Mr. Mayor, I want to start with what's going on in New York City. It does appear to be, right now, ground zero for what the country is facing. You noted on Friday the grim reminder that New York City, I think, now has a third of all cases in this country. What can you tell us this morning? Is there any ebbing of this yet?
MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO:
Chuck, the truth is -- and New Yorkers and all Americans deserve the blunt truth, it's only getting worse. And in fact, April and May are going to be a lot worse. Right now, we are a third of the cases in the country. That's going to get worse. We're about two thirds or more of the cases in New York State. That's going to get worse. But Chuck the president of the United States is from New York City and he will not lift a finger to help his hometown. And I don't get it. I don't get it. Right now, I have asked repeatedly for the military to be mobilized, for the Defense Production Act to be used to its fullest to get us things like ventilators so people can live who would die otherwise. Chuck, I can't be blunt enough. If the president doesn't act, people will die who could have lived otherwise.
CHUCK TODD:
What is it that you want --
MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO:
Senior citizens, folks who are members of families. And we can't get action from the president of the United States.
CHUCK TODD:
What is it that you want the military to do immediately? What would be a specific thing you'd want the military to do immediately?
MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO:
Chuck, the military has extraordinary medical capacity of its own that's been honed in fighting wars. They can handle any situation. All military personnel who are medically trained should be sent to places where this crisis is deep, like New York, right now. The military is the best logistical organization in the nation. If there are ventilators being produced anywhere in the country, we need to get them to New York. Not weeks from now or months from now, in the next ten days. And the only force in America that could do that is the military. Why are they at their bases? Why are they not being allowed to serve? I guarantee you they're ready to serve. But the president has to give the order.
CHUCK TODD:
The shelter in place order for New York City, how do you plan on enforcing this next week?
MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO:
Chuck, people really do get it. I've been around my city the last few days. They're getting the message more and more. Also, we will use the NYPD and other agencies to go out and remind people. Educate them, break up groups of people if they're congregating. It'll take a while for people to truly get it.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO:
But right now, I'll tell you one thing, everyday New Yorkers, everyday Americans, are much farther ahead of the curve in terms of understanding this crisis than anything we're seeing from the White House. And that's troubling, to think the people that have the power are not using it, when everyday people get right now, shelter in place is necessary to protect our families.
CHUCK TODD:
Governor Hogan, I want to talk to you. You, and I believe -- and Governor Cuomo of New York, jointly wrote a letter to the president. I think, number one, you wanted to get FEMA in the lead role. They're now in the lead role. But let me ask you, on this issue of procurement, we already know Governor Cuomo basically admitted he had to get price gauged in order to buy some N95 masks. Who should be, be the lead agency here? Should FEMA be the one both purchasing and doling this out? Or should the states be competing against each other?
GOV. LARRY HOGAN:
Well, look, so this is a problem that everybody's been talking about for a week. But I don't think, just talking about what was done wrong yesterday --
CHUCK TODD:
I understand.
GOV. LARRY HOGAN:
-- or last week or last year is really that helpful in the discussion. Governor Cuomo is the vice chairman of the National Governors Association. I'm the chairman. I can tell you that we've been talking with and meeting with all the governors, with the vice president, occasionally with the president, with all the senior team almost every single day, talking about the need. And I believe we've pushed for action and we are getting some progress. Now, it's not nearly enough. It's not fast enough. We're way behind the curve. But let's talk about, you know, we're trying to figure out what we can do to move forward. And they are making progress. It's not fast enough. But on all of those things. On respirators, on PPEs on the masks, on the tests. You know, we're ramping up. You know, New York has about half of the aid of the rest of the country. They're focusing on the three states that have the worst problem right now. And New York is one of them. But they're really trying to push things out to all the states. But yet, of course, it's not enough. And failures were made and things that should've happened sooner. But, you know, I just want to focus on where we go from here because our job is to save the citizens. You know, we had another death here in Maryland last night. We just hit over 500 in the Washington region. And instead of just talking about what didn't get done, I just want to get things done.
CHUCK TODD:
I understand that. That's why I want to ask you is, I mean, do you feel as if there is a point person in the federal government that is handling this, the N95 mask issue? Or do you feel as if you still have to find different ways to acquire masks?
GOV. LARRY HOGAN:
I think it's a little bit of both, Chuck. So FEMA, we pushed to get FEMA in charge. I think they are listening to the governors. All 55 governors have stepped up and weighed in. We listed priorities about what had to get done, what they needed to focus on. They're responding to almost all five of those requests. But FEMA has to take the lead. But we also have to just -- we can't wait. So we're taking individual actions as well. It's not a perfect situation. But we're trying to ramp up and order things on the open market, get some things produced here. It's going to take the federal, state and local governments all stepping up and doing whatever it takes, regardless of, you know, who's supposed to do what. We've all got to jump in and do whatever we can. That's just where we are --
CHUCK TODD:
I want to talk about a --
GOV. LARRY HOGAN:
--- in this situation
CHUCK TODD:
I want to talk about a regional issue. I'm going to show some pictures to our audience. You can't see this, but this was at the Tidal Basin yesterday in Washington, D.C. Not a lot of social distancing was being practiced there. You've been concerned. I know that Virginia hasn't issued the same level of restrictions that Maryland and D.C. have had. The inability to operate as a region here, is that a problem for you? Are you hoping that the governor of Virginia in particular and the mayor of D.C., that all three of you are going to be on the same page here?
GOV. LARRY HOGAN:
Well, so in addition to that meeting with all the governors, we've been meeting as a region with the governor of Virginia, with the mayor of D.C. We talked on Friday. We're going to be talking again I believe tomorrow. We're all taking actions and trying to work together. But yeah, the social distancing is not being enforced. And it's a little crazy to see the kind of crowds at the cherry blossoms. I mean, people have to listen. Those people that are out there. You are endangering not only yourselves, but your fellow citizens by not listening to these warnings. We've been getting pretty tough out here in Maryland on folks, limiting people to groups of ten. We were chastising all these spring breakers that came back from partying in Florida. And we told them they need to self-quarantine for 14 days, otherwise they're risking the lives of their parents and their grandparents and their friends because this no longer is just about older people. People of all ages.Forty-some percent of our cases are under 54 years old, and from 18 to 54. We had a ten month old, a five year old who have gotten this disease. So people are kidding themselves if they think that they should just go on spring break or enjoy being out there just as business as normal. We've got to get people off the streets and out of these crowds. It's absolutely essential.
CHUCK TODD:
Mayor de Blasio, there're a lot of people who are going to wonder what does progress look like? And because it's an invisible enemy and every day the numbers right now are getting worse, not better, how can just people who are sitting at home, anxious to know when do they get to go back to work, what does progress look like to you?
MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO:
Chuck, first of all, I respect Governor Hogan for sure, but I just disagree with something he said. It's not about blaming people for what happened in the past, it's about right this minute. The American government is not at full bore right now. The Defense Production Act, it's been activated. We've gotten no indication of any factory on 24/7 shifts. We've gotten no shipments. And the U.S. military is at its bases instead of at the frontline. So respectfully, Governor, we cannot be gentle about this point right this minute. From this minute forward, our government, our federal government, needs to be in this fight instead of on the sidelines. I'm not worried about blame. I'm worried about saving lives right this minute. And I don't see the federal government at this moment. To the point at hand, Chuck, April is going to be worse than March. And I fear May will be worse than April. So bluntly, it's going to get worse, a lot worse, before it gets better. But what would be progress? Real, consistent social distancing being enforced, people living with it. And hospitals that can function. People seeing that their health care system is actually holding because we have the supplies and the personnel. And I think that's going to be a national reality, Chuck. Medical personnel are going to have to be taken from one part of the country to another as this crisis deepens. The supplies, the equipment have to go where the needed is greatest. If people see the system holding, that will be progress. If it starts to collapse, think about that in the United States of America in the 21st century, if our hospitals can't function because our government wasn't there for them.
CHUCK TODD:
Governor Hogan, what would you give as a prescription of what does progress look like as we sit at home and wait?
GOV. LARRY HOGAN:
Well, look, nobody knows where the end of this is or when the spikes are going to happen. But progress is going to be if we can somehow bend this curve down, wherein we can start to stop that spike that's going so we don't overload the health care system. You know, people are just going to -- look, it's very disconcerting. People's lives are disrupted. It's scary. And I understand people out there are concerned about when is it going to look better. Just know that people all over the place are working as hard as they possibly can to fight this hidden enemy. And it's going to take all of us. Not only the local governments, the cities like the mayor, and the state governments, all the governors, the federal government. What it takes is every one of our citizens is a part of this. And we can't stop it without them cooperating --
MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO:
Governor, it's not true that --
GOVERNOR LARRY HOGAN:
-- but it's going to be a while. We don't know how long or how long it's going to be. But it's going to continue until we can get it stopped. And we're just going to keep fighting 24 hours a day until we could get it done.
CHUCK TODD:
Alright.
MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO:
Chuck, it's not true that people everywhere are fighting with all they've got because our military is being sidelined and the White House is in denial. It's just not true, Governor.
CHUCK TODD:
Well I'm going to be --
MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO:
I respect you, but that's just not true.
CHUCK TODD:
I know every --
GOVERNOR LARRY HOGAN:
Well, we've got military all over our state doing all kinds of great things like --
MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO:
You've got National Guard --
GOVERNOR LARRY HOGAN:
-- I mean, humanitarian missions --
MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO:
-- you do not have the --
GOVERNOR LARRY HOGAN:
-- handing out food --
MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO:
-- American military.
GOVERNOR LARRY HOGAN:
-- helping with hospitals and building new hospital beds. And your governor in New York is doing the same thing. So maybe you ought to try to talk with him and see if he --
MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO:
I have talked to him. It is not -- not everyone's doing everything they could do, Governor.
CHUCK TODD:
I think we're all --
MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO:
Let's be honest about it.
CHUCK TODD:
And I'm going to be speaking with the FEMA administrator in a few minutes as well. Governor Hogan, Mayor de Blasio, I know you guys are both fighting the same fight here at the end of the day. Let's get rid of this virus and let's hope we can get back on track here. Thank you, both. I know it's trying times for both of you. So thank you --
MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO:
Thank you, Chuck.
GOVERNOR LARRY HOGAN:
Thank you, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
-- for your service. The coronavirus crisis has sickened the American economy with businesses shuttering, unemployment spiking and the Dow losing all the ground that's been gained under President Trump. Democratic and Republican Senate negotiators are back at work today. They're trying to agree on a rescue package that is expected to be well in excess of $1 trillion. It could even get close to $2 trillion. Among the negotiators in the room is my next guest here, it's Republican Senator Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania. And he joins me now. Senator Toomey, welcome back to Meet the Press. I know there's going to be a meeting --
SEN. PAT TOOMEY:
Good morning, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
Good morning. I know there's going to be a meeting between the four leaders in Congress in about an, in the next couple of hours that tells me that maybe we're landing the plane here on phase three. What is the latest? And how quickly do you expect a deal?
SEN. PAT TOOMEY:
Chuck, I think you're right. I think we're on short final. And we'll, we'll have this plane landed. It starts today with a very, very important procedural vote this afternoon, which will really tell us if we're going to be able to go forward. I think we will. And I'd like to just share with you a quick summary of what's in the bill.
CHUCK TODD:
Would you?
SEN. PAT TOOMEY:
And I think you'll see why it would be very, very -- it'd be very hard, I think, to vote against this. So I think of it in several categories, three categories, really. The first, we're focused on, you know, take the, the guy who wakes up tomorrow morning in Pennsylvania and can't go to work. He's got a family to take care of. And there's -- Pennsylvania's closed down all businesses. So that describes, of course, millions of people across the country. So focusing on individuals and families, we have already created a new paid family leave program, a paid medical leave program. We're going to plus up unemployment benefits significantly. We're expanding eligibility for unemployment. And we're sending direct checks to all middle and low income workers, substantial amounts of money. So that's focused directly on getting people through this period. The next category is the resources we're sending directly to health care providers. Hospitals, expanding our ability to research, develop, bring to market therapies, vaccines, all of the things that we need to be doing in that space. And then the final space is, you know, it's essential that people have a job to go back to when we get through this as soon as we possibly can. And so, there's a very, very large small business lending program that is in this legislation. And those loans, Chuck, are meant to be forgiven to the extent that they are spent on maintaining payroll. And then there's a very, very large credit facility that we're standing up. It'll be done jointly with the Treasury and the Fed, and it'll make sure that our financial markets function, and most importantly, that businesses can get temporary credit. So this is going to be a very, very large, very powerful combination.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, let me ask about some specifics that I know most viewers are probably most anxious to hear, and that's the direct payment situation. Number one, is it going to be sustained if the national emergency goes into May. You know, we know there's an April payment that is planned on. Would there be a May payment if we're still in a national emergency? And is that, is that codified in this bill?
SEN. PAT TOOMEY:
So that is not codified in this bill. But let's keep in mind, first of all, we are going to make a tremendous amount of resources available to companies to keep their workforce employed because we're hoping this is a relatively brief period. And we want those folks to still be associated with their company so they're called back to work rather than, than feel like they've, they've lost that tie. That's number one. Number two, there's very generous, significant unemployment benefits. So we'll reevaluate. If we are, you know, several weeks from now and we think we need another round. It's not the most efficient way to do this, by the way, Chuck. We're sending checks out to a lot of people who will still be salaried people, who still have their income. But it was seen as the fastest way to get money in people's hands.
CHUCK TODD:
Right. The issue of which industries to, quote, unquote, "bail out," what would that look like? And how do you prevent -- I mean, I know you were a big opponent of TARP and you believe this is a different situation.
SEN. PAT TOOMEY:
Right.
CHUCK TODD:
The question though is, for instance, like on the cruise industry, are they part of a moral hazard in your mind, or not?
SEN. PAT TOOMEY:
So here's the way I think about this. The big credit facility that we're standing up has really two components. There is a category of funds that'll be available to the Treasury secretary for direct lending. Frankly, that is going to be for really seriously distressed and absolutely essential companies. That's going to be a short list, and it's going to be about, really about American national security. The vast majority of this is going to be and has to be under law a broad based credit facility that will be available across categories, across sectors and industries. And it's, and it's, has to be repaid. None of this is grant money. None of this is free money. This is all going to be liquidity that is provided to fundamentally solvent companies to get them through this time.
CHUCK TODD:
And final question is: is the role, that President Trump's been playing at these briefings -- do you believe that the public role the president has been playing has been helpful to this, or do you believe it -- he should take a step back and allow the task force to lead this, to lead this response?
SEN. PAT TOOMEY:
Well, you know, Chuck I think many of us have, have struggled to understand this and think about this. It's completely unprecedented. I think that in many ways the president has stepped back. We hear -- I think Vice President Pence has done a great job pulling together all the different agencies and branches of government and dealing at the different levels. I think Dr. Fauci has done a fantastic job helping people to understand what's happening here. I also think many other folks in the administration have been absolutely terrific from Seema Verma to Alex Azar and others. So I think the administration as a whole is, is responding well.
CHUCK TODD:
Right. Do you think, though, the president has sort of gotten in the way of that at times?
SEN. PAT TOOMEY:
Look, his -- I mean his message has changed as our understanding of this has changed and sometimes it's been better than other times. I think more recently, it's generally been better.
CHUCK TODD:
Senator Pat Toomey, Republican from Pennsylvania, thank you for coming on, sharing your views. And we'll be looking forward to seeing --
SEN. PAT TOOMEY:
Thanks for having me.
CHUCK TODD:
-- what this stimulus bill looks like. And when we come back, the federal government has struggled to manage the response to the outbreak. I'm going to talk to the man that is now tasked with managing this effort nationwide. The FEMA administrator, Peter Gaynor, is next.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. FEMA is now leading the government's response to the Coronavirus. FEMA will handle requests from states, coordinate resources and decide where to send medical supplies. And joining me now is the head of FEMA, Peter Gaynor. Mr. Gaynor, welcome back to Meet the Press. And I can tell you on --
ADMIN. PETER GAYNOR:
Hey, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
-- Friday, I heard from governors who said, "I'm really glad to see FEMA now playing point." So I think you have 50 fans around the country right now. So Mr. Gaynor, let me start with the need at hand and that is medical equipment. And I guess the issue of procurement. Governor Cuomo talked about getting price gouged. That is something I think -- for the N95 masks, that is something that I think he is hoping FEMA will solve. Is the federal government now in charge of procuring N95 masks for the country?
ADMIN. PETER GAYNOR:
So we're asking everyone -- so we have masks. Federal government has a stock pile of masks. And a strategic stockpile. We got donations from around the country. We're ramping up production in commercial facilities. And what I'll say is if you can find it on the open market, go buy it. So any governor that needs it and you find it, go buy it. FEMA will reimburse you under this emergency. We are shipping supplies every day. You know, we shipped yesterday, we're shipping today, we'll ship tomorrow. It's fluid, it's dynamic. We have hundreds of requests from governors around the country for all the same kinds of things. What we're trying to do is we're trying to prioritize where these limited, critical resources have to go. Places like New York, New York City, Seattle, Washington, Los Angeles, California. We understand that and that's our priority for, for right now.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, I guess the thing -- are you at all concerned that a state that has not yet faced the incoming, New York and the places --, if they go and procure their own and they hoard, are you going to basically say, "Look, state X, I need this equipment right now in New York City." Is that now your job at FEMA to make sure we don't have states hoarding?
ADMIN. PETER GAYNOR
Well, you know, I hope no one's hoarding, right? Because we're all in this together. Every American has a role to play. If you need it and you find it, you need to buy it. We hope not to get into that allocation decision making. We hope that governors and their supply chains can do it on their own. And if a governor needs help, critical resources, they submit that through the FEMA system. And we have hundreds of requests right now. But this is a global pandemic. The supplies that governors are asking for are the same supplies that leaders of many countries around the world are asking for. So, again, you know, please play your role. And let me just try to give you an example, the testing. If you don't need a test, if you don't have symptoms and you just want to make yourself feel better and get a test, you're really taking away from the PPE that we need to go to hospitals for critical actions. So if you don't need a test, don't do it. Do your part. Mitigation works. The president's 15 days actions stay at home, social distancing, wash your hands, all those things work. And it's just not the other guy doing it. We all have to do it together, to include me and you.
CHUCK TODD:
You brought up the 15 days. That expires I believe in about eight. I think that -- if we go back to when these guidelines went -- were put into place. What's the likelihood that we are going to have to continue these same guidelines for another few weeks?
ADMIN. PETER GAYNOR
Well I -- again, this is fluid and dynamic. And I'll leave the medical analysis up to the experts, Dr. Fauci and team. They're looking at that every day. But again, we know, we look at South Korea, we look at China, we know mitigation works. We know there's an end to this. And again, we all have to do our role. And that really is my message today. You know, it is about all of us doing what we can.
CHUCK TODD:
The Defense Production Act, we know the president invoked it. Has it been -- is it being used or not? Or are you wanting companies to voluntarily pitch in here and you're only going to use it if they don't voluntarily pitch in?
ADMIN. PETER GAYNOR
Yeah, so I think it's an insurance policy. Right? It's a lever. If we have to throw that lever we will. And it's pretty amazing. You know -- companies from around the country volunteering to do all sorts of different things to help Americans. And so we haven't had to use it yet. Will we have to use it? Maybe. But right now this is what makes America so great. Every company pitching in to make sure that we can beat this virus. So it's been really great to see.
CHUCK TODD:
Are you confident you have the ventilators and the N95 masks that this country is going to need in the next six weeks?
ADMIN. PETER GAYNOR
We are working to source from all different kinds of manufacturing. I know there's manufacturing lines coming up and running. And, again, these are finite, limited resources. Will we ever have enough? I'm not sure. But our goal is to make sure that we aim these critical resources to the places that need them the most. And then, you know, we'll triage as we go. And I have a team, 13 agencies behind me. I have support from DOD. I have the top logistics people here from the joint staff helping. We are -- we are-- We're doing great things today.
CHUCK TODD:
The last time I had you on it was a natural disaster, it was a weather event. I talked with one of your predecessors, Craig Fugate, and he said, "The reality is if we have another weather event that while FEMA will be there for search and rescue that the recovery efforts that FEMA regularly leads probably get pushed back a little bit." Is that fair to say?
ADMIN. PETER GAYNOR
So I'll say that we're ready every day for response. Again, it's not just FEMA responding. It's all of government responding. So whether it's DOD or National Guard helping me, all these resources exist. Should we have another natural disaster over a COVID? Yeah, it's going to be a challenge. But, again, we have a great team. I have great local, great state partners, great private partners. I have no doubt we're ready for COVID-19 or any disaster that may be in front of us.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, Peter Gaynor, the FEMA administrator, thanks for coming on and spending a few minutes with us. Good luck out there. We're all pulling for you.
ADMIN. PETER GAYNOR:
Thanks, Chuck. Thanks.
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