CNN "Erin Burnett Outfront" - Transcript: Rep. Dan Kildee (D-MI) Is Interviewed About His Decision On Impeachment

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

HARLOW: OK. Again, the next public hearing on Wednesday. Kaitlan, thank you very, very much. We appreciate it.

Out front now Democratic Congressman Dan Kildee of Michigan. Thank you for being with us. Happy Thanksgiving.

REP. DAN KILDEE (D-MI): Thank you. Thank you. Happy Thanksgiving to you.

HARLOW: Thank you, Congressman. Let's begin with Wednesday, public hearings, first from the Judiciary Committee. We don't know yet who is going to be called, but you have been slow to make judgments in terms of saying how you will vote and I wonder if that has changed tonight. Have you decided yet, Congressman, if you will vote yes or no on impeachment at this point?

KILDEE: Well, I don't think I can make a decision yet until all of the testimony is provided. But I will say this, I have not heard the President offer a defense against the really compelling witnesses that testified before the Intelligence Committee. They painted a picture, all of them painted a stunning picture of a president that was willing to extort or bribe or even use a softer word trade military aid for Ukraine in exchange for investigating one of his political opponents and no real world is that OK.

[19:05:07]

And the President really has not offered a defense other than as the Republicans have done all along, criticize the process. So here's a chance for them to participate in the process.

HARLOW: So if they don't ...

KILDEE: And I think at that point in time, obviously, unless they offer something that I have not heard, I can't imagine that the framers would include an impeachment provision in the Constitution and have us ignore the facts that we've seen before us and not use that tool.

HARLOW: OK. That's a pretty clear answer to me, unless we see more fact witnesses called or unless the White House participates in a meaningful way here and hear something very new. So let me move on and ask you about what some of your fellow Democrats in the House are focusing on and that is multiple articles of impeachment against the President. Some of them want to include articles about what was laid out in the Mueller report. I wonder if you're in that camp or if you're in the camp that believes this should focus strictly on Ukraine.

KILDEE: Well, I think we have to listen to what we hear in these hearings. I think the witnesses that will testify about the authority for impeachment could address some of this. But we also have to figure out where we have 218 votes within the Democratic caucus. The game changed for the Democratic caucus and really for Congress after the Ukraine story came out.

And remember those several Democratic freshmen who really have a National Security background, they had been quite reluctant to move on an impeachment process until the Ukraine story came out and it became clear that the National Security of the United States was being put at risk in order for the President to advance his own political interests.

So I think there is a good argument though, Poppy, for an article that would focus on the obstruction that the President has been continuously involved in throughout this process. And some of us are still concerned about whether Mr. McGahn is going to be able to testify.

And if he does, the question about the order to fire Mr. Mueller could also, in my mind anyway, rise to the level of a potential impeachment article.

HARLOW: OK. So it sounds like you would be in the camp of say your fellow Democrat, Congressman Ro Khanna who says it's important to include the Mueller obstruction evidence to uphold what he calls the principles of separation of power. He says what we are doing is not just for today, but it is for safeguarding American constitutional democracy for generations to come, but then you've got another fellow Democrat of yours, Congresswoman Veronica Escobar of Texas who's on the Judiciary Committee and she said this, this week, "I think the broader we go that may pose challenges for the American people." Do you think she has a point especially selling it in a state like yours in Michigan?

Yes. I mean, I think we have to think this through, obviously. The Ukraine issue is the one that has unified not only Democrats but many Americans across the political spectrum. Even many Republicans honestly who are afraid to come out and say how wrong they think this is. But the potential of an obstruction article, I think, has to ...

HARLOW: Who are you talking about? What Republicans are you talking about, in Congress?

KILDEE: Well, I mean, I think you can - yes, for sure, Republicans in Congress. And I just - I'm sure you saw the interview with my former colleague, Charlie Dent.

HARLOW: I did.

KILDEE: Where he referred to conversations that he's had with Republicans. I've had those same conversations. I'm not going to out them, because I think it's up to them to speak their own truth. But I will say this, many of my Republican colleagues have tremendous courage in the elevator on the way to the second floor, where the floor of the House is and somehow leave that courage behind when they walk onto the floor of the House.

This is a moment, I think, they're really going to have to think about. In retrospect, 15 or 20 years from now, are they actually going to want to have to explain to their children and grandchildren why they thought that the President was actually OK when he tried to trade American National Security to investigate one of his political opponents. And then obstructed the process of actually looking at that question. I don't think that's a place they're going to want to be.

HARLOW: Final question, you're home. I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving with your family and I know you've had time to talk to constituents before the public hearings of the House Intel Committee. The latest polling that we saw out of Michigan specifically New York Times/Siena College poll in late October found 53 percent there oppose impeachment and removing the President from office. Has that changed anecdotally among your constituents?

KILDEE: I think it's changed marginally. The President clearly still has a strong base that is with him, 40, 43 percent whatever it might be. But I've been saying from the beginning, the polls are interesting in this case but we don't poll tests the Constitution. We don't poll test whether or not we uphold the Constitution.

[19:09:58]

So it's important that we try to explain to the public what we're doing and justifying our actions, but I don't think that any of us on either side of this question ought to be making decision this consequential based on the popularity in the moment. I think that would be a mistake.

HARLOW: And you yourself have told me previously, there is a political risk for Democrats here as well. Congressman, we appreciate your time, especially after the holiday. Thank you very much.

KILDEE: Thank you, Poppy.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source