CNN "Anderson Cooper 360" - Transcript: Rep. Peter Welch (D-VT) Is Interviewed About How He Views Today's Hearing On Capitol Hill

Interview

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Today's proceedings neither lack for color nor at times drama. Kurt Volker as you saw at the top now says he understands that others equated investigating the Ukrainian company Burisma meant having Ukraine investigate the Bidens.

In retrospect, he testified, quote, "I should have seen the connection differently, and had I done so, I would have raised my own objections." Which didn't stop renowned Democrat Peter Welch from attempting to make that point even more explicit with him and Tim Morrison later on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PETER WELCH (D-VT): Now could have a mayor of a city withhold funding for the police department budget unless the police chief agreed to open up an information investigation on a political rival? Mr. Morrison?

MORRISON: In that hypothetical no, I don't think he should do that.

WELCH: Yes. Mr. Volker, Ambassador Volker, should you agree?

VOLKER: Yes.

[23:19:57]

WELCH: The same would be true if it were a governor withholding the budget request of the state police unless the state police agree to conduct an investigation on a political rival. You would agree?

MORRISON: Correct.

VOLKER: Yes, sir.

WELCH: In your view is it any different for a member of Congress? Of course not, right? Would you agree that the president has the same obligation as the mayor, as the governor and the member of Congress to not withhold aid unless he gets an investigation into a political rival? Mr. Morrison?

MORRISON: Yes, sir, I would agree with that hypothetical.

VOLKER: I would agree.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: I spoke with Congressman Welch just before air time.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: I think the analogy you made is a really apt and interesting one. And the fact that they both agreed with the analogy I find sort of fascinating, and yet, Morrison continues to claim that when he heard the call, he went directly to the national -- the NSC attorneys, and yet, he claims that was just because he was afraid it might leak out, which and wanted to lock it down which doesn't really make much sense.

WELCH: It makes sense if what leaked out is what we now know. And that is that the president in fact was asking a foreign leader to do an investigation on a political opponent.

COOPER: But he continues to claim that he -- I mean, he said on one hand he didn't like what he heard but that he wasn't going to the attorneys because there was something inherently wrong about it.

WELCH: Right. So, I mean, Morrison is being very hesitant. And it's not his call to make. It's the kind of position he's taking. Vindman was really in a way much more courageous because he had this sense of duty. An incredible story about his father, dad, I'm not afraid of telling the truth.

And he felt it was a duty and obligation to go forward because what he heard was an allegiance (Ph) to what I was asking in that question. If the mayor told the police commissioner yes, I'll support you but you got to do an investigation on my political opponent.

Vindman was quite able and insisting on saying that's wrong. Morrison was much more hesitant but in fact, his actions demonstrated he's alarmed. He knew it was bad, he went to the lawyer and he was part of putting it in that ultra-secure system.

So, the bottom line here is that what did the president do? And what I was trying to do when I was analogizing to a mayor is to demystify it. When we're down here in Washington and it's the president and his national security. it's so beyond the everyday experience of most of us. That it's like we don't, we suspend judgment.

But if our mayor made that deal with the police commissioner --

COOPER: Right. I mean --

WELCH: -- we'd rail him out. He's gone.

COOPER: It's not even a question when you carried in that --

(CROSSTALK)

WELCH: Exactly. Because you feel authorized to come to the conclusion that's obvious. When it's the president and you have a lot of deference to the authority of that office, and then also you inject into it the partisan battles that we're having in this country over everything.

Then you suspend judgment. So, my effort there was to say to the American people, hey, common sense. Your judgment, it's valuable. Use it.

COOPER: Do you think that Volker and Morrison ended up being the witnesses that the Republicans wanted them to be?

WELCH: I don't think they were, but they were a mix. I mean, I thought pretty weird about Ambassador Volker is that he's a smart guy, very experienced. And --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: And he's been around for a long time.

WELCH: He's been around. So, he's very hesitant to connect the dots.

COOPER: Right.

WELCH: He was part of the official Ukraine policy which is very honorable. And by the way, had total bipartisan support.

COOPER: Right.

WELCH: It's supported by Nancy Pelosi and Kevin McCarthy. Stop corruption in the Ukraine. Resist aggression from Russia.

COOPER: Right. Which by the way, was the policy that Ambassador Yovanovitch was trying to execute.

WELCH: That's exactly right. And Yovanovitch was seeing how there was this outside force and was starting to deal with it as a result of which she got fired. Or recalled.

Volker was seeing it but acting as though well that's just the way Rudy talks or that's him blustering. Or he had a kind of excuse that allowed him to not come to the obvious conclusion that was before him. Namely, that there was an alternative Ukraine policy that was the one that was being pushed by the president.

COOPER: Also, his, essentially, his argument is, well, I didn't know Burisma equaled Bidens.

WELCH: Right. And that's like --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Which for a player like him is hard to imagine.

WELCH: I mean, you can't -- you know, you can't be a diplomat who is nuance and not get -- be in on the joke.

COOPER: Right.

WELCH: So to speak.

COOPER: Sondland's testimony tomorrow, I mean, I'm so curious just to see how he is going to try to play this.

[23:25:02]

I mean, does he had, does he just come clean? Does he say he doesn't remember? Does he, you know, say he was bragging to, you know, the David Holmes's of the world.

WELCH: Well, we're all waiting. Because, you know, the thing about Sondland of course he was a political appointee.

COOPER: Right.

WELCH: And he got that appointment because he made a huge donation.

COOPER: Right. He gave a million dollars to the inaugural.

WELCH: Right. So that gets him an ambassadorship. But the aspect of it that was, I think of interest of the president who was more cunning about it, is that Sondland really wanted to quote, "help" but he had no experience in what foreign policy was and how politics works or a foreign policy works.

So, if the president is telling him Gordon, this is what I want you to do. Get that investigation. He was helping.

COOPER: Congressman, thanks so much for being with us. I appreciate it. WELCH: Thank you.

COOPER: Congressman Peter Welch.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: That's Congressman Peter Welch.

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