CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-MI) Interviewed On Her Insights On Impeachment Hearing
Interview
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All right, let's now turn to Congresswoman Debbie Dingell of Michigan. She's a senior whip and the co-chair of the House Democratic Policy and Communications Committee.
So first Congresswoman, I'm going to have to ask you, I mean, you might have some insight into this that the rest of us don't. Any idea when we should expect this House Intelligence report?
REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): I know that the staff is working on it. They're making sure that it is thorough and accurate. I myself, am waiting like the American people to read it. I'm not on those committees. I have no inside intelligence, but I think they are trying to target it for next week.
NOBLES: You expect that you'll learn anything new that we haven't already learned from these hearings in that report?
DINGELL: Well, I do believe that there may -- we've got to always protect our national security. There was testimony in classified settings, but I think they will summarize it in a way that not only I, my colleagues in both parties, but the American people can understand and what they recommend to the Judiciary Committee.
I think it's very important that we have a very -- this is really a very serious time.
NOBLES: Right.
DINGELL: I think it's one -- I never thought I'd have to vote on something like this. I mean, I take it very seriously. We're in a process. We're trying to make sure it's a fair and transparent process. And it's part of the process.
NOBLES: So to that end, do you believe that anything involving the Russia investigation and those allegations should be included in the Articles of Impeachment, or should it only be focused on the situation with Ukraine?
DINGELL: Well, my understanding, first of all, I don't -- I do know, because I read the Mueller report, and I've talked to a lot of people. I have been hacked myself. I've talked to Intelligence Agencies from other countries.
Russia is trying to divide us as a country. It is trying to destabilize democracies around the country. But that really has -- I don't know what information the Intelligence Committee has or what those issues are, and I don't know what they're going to include.
I am someone who thinks we have to be transparent. The American people have to understand. What the Wednesday hearing will do is try to define, what is an impeachable offense? What is a high crime or misdemeanor? We need to understand that.
And I think that's what the judiciary is going to try to define so that all of us, including me as a member of Congress, understand, and we go from there.
So what does the Intelligence Committee include in their report will matter.
NOBLES: Right. And so then I also want to ask you your thoughts about the step past impeachment. You know, how does the Senate handle this? How -- what would you recommend as House members and specifically, I want to ask you about the possibility of just censure as opposed to being removed from office?
And your colleague, Representative Brenda Lawrence, she is one that prefers that over impeachment. She thinks that that's probably a better idea.
And I want to read to you from a CNN opinion writer, who says that censure actually could be like a holding pattern for you that would, you know, prevent you from having to move too fast too quickly, and he wrote, "A censure would issue a formal warning: This is unacceptable behavior from a President, but we will not remove you from office at this time. However, pending further testimony, or should there be any instance of further wrongdoing, the appropriate remedy is removal from office."
And this is the big point that Charles Firestone makes, should the Senate ultimately acquit, which is a possibility given that Republicans control the Senate. Is there the possibility that this would prevent you from moving forward with another impeachable offense if that were to be discovered?
Are you concerned that this could create a finality to this investigation that would kind of box you in?
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DINGELL: So first of all, I haven't made any decision about what we should do because I'm waiting for both the Intelligence and the Judiciary Committee to make a recommendation.
My colleague, Brenda Lawrence came out for impeachment long before I did. I, last summer under enormous pressure, Tom Steyer, buying ads against me on moveon.org.
NOBLES: Right.
DINGELL: I didn't come out for it because I was very worried about Russia dividing us as a country. But once a Trump Inspector General said, it's real, it's credible. It's serious, it's urgent and a danger to our national security. I've said we needed to investigate. No one is above the rule of the law.
So my colleague Brenda Lawrence, who came out long before I did, clarified her statement or then said she still believes that he should be impeached up. I have been very methodical.
I think every one of us, Republican or Democrat needs to be methodical. We need to understand what those issues are and the Senate must do the same thing.
I don't like the partisan or the fact that Republicans have been -- I mean, quite frankly, I've talked to them off record. Some of them are just very afraid to come out. Our job -- my job is to protect the Constitution and that's -- when we take that Oath of Office, every member has that same obligation.
NOBLES: It's interesting that you make that point about Russia dividing us and perhaps using impeachment as a way to do that.
You know, the Bloomberg campaign in specific has said that impeachment could actually embolden the Trump campaign, fire up his supporters. Are you concerned at all about that? Especially if you have someone like a bad actor like Russia, being involved in it and fanning those flames?
DINGELL: So you know, look, I was one of the people that told everybody Donald Trump can win and everybody thought I was crazy three years ago.
I have said right now that I've got people in my district that are strongly supporting him. I walked the GM picket line every weekend with people that were still voting for him.
I think all of us need to focus about how divided we are. But we also need to protect our country. And we also need to -- what is a -- what is wrong? Everybody -- nobody is above the rule of the law. So we have that moral responsibility, too.
And we have that responsibility to protect our democracy. And I take that as the most serious responsibility I have.
NOBLES: And so I want to get your thoughts on Rudy Giuliani's role in all of this, obviously, there were a number of people that testified about his role being inappropriate. And it seemed to come back to him at almost every turn.
At some point, do you think Republicans will start to take the lead of the President? Maybe start to distance themselves from Rudy Giuliani?
DINGELL: I have talked to many Republicans who, quite frankly, more of them are more willing to talk about that publicly than they are the President.
I think -- look, I don't -- you've got a lot of Republicans that are publicly saying the behavior related to Ukraine was inappropriate. Is it impeachable? And that's why the Judiciary report, the hearings will be important.
But I have been stunned at some of Rudy Giuliani's behavior. And I just think it really has crossed a line. And you can probably see more people pile on there because it is so clear how inappropriate his behavior has been.
NOBLES: Well, Congresswoman, we appreciate you being here on a holiday week.
DINGELL: Thank you.
NOBLES: You obviously have a monumental job in front of you -- historic, in fact, over the next several weeks.
DINGELL: It is historic. And serious.
NOBLES: So we wish you the best of luck with that.
DINGELL: Thank you.
NOBLES: Appreciate you being here.
DINGELL: Thank you for having me.
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